Quote:I can certainly see the validity of the point you are making FD, but as someone who dislikes ostentatious displays of faith, I come at it from the slightly different tack, of seeing it as a step which may help to liberalise a culture which seems unwilling to make any concessions to the modern world, or where they can change to better fit in it.
That doesn't make sense. How is denying women the right to wear what they choose 'liberalising'? Wouldn't liberalising involve ensuring that they had a real choice? When have people ever succeeded in freeing their fellow man by forcing them to choose what they choose?
Also, how is your dislike for their 'displays' relevant? To me it just indicates that liberalisation is not really your motive - rather it is to take away their right to do something you might not like.
And why do you see their choice of clothing as more of an outward display than clothing that displays flesh? Wouldn't it be less of a display by most reasonable measures? After all, that is the point of a burqua. It was never intended to be a display targetted at non-Muslims. The fact that you see it as a display targetted at you indicates an inability to see the issue from another person's perspective.
Quote:There is also the fact that people can be oppressed, without actually realising it
You mean like people who think that being denied the choice of what to wear is liberalising, provided that only people who dress differently from them are forced to change?
Quote:and the mere fact of not shoving your differences down everybodies throats
If a muslim woman tries to shove her burqua down your throat, you can get her arrested for assault. If you are merely speaking figuratively, then you are again misunderstanding what liberty means and failing to see the issue from another person's perspective. The mere act of wearing something that you interpret as a symbol you dislike does not represent any actual harm to you. Surely a person's freedom to choose is far more important than you disliking the symbolism of their choice?
Quote:At the end of the day, it is nothing more than a uniform, which is ordered on them by a patriarchal political religion
So you cannot accept that some women may choose to wear a burqua of their own accord? Or because of some other form of patriarchal tyranny?
Quote:so to say it is unfair to have a political decision on what they wear is wrong, would have to include the muslim rule that forces it on them in the first place.
Of course it would. That is the crucial difference. That would be protecting their right to choose what to wear. That's what liberty is. You cannot liberate a person by telling them what to choose. You can only do it by giving them a choice. It's a lot harder to do than simply order them about, and you may not like the choices they make, but that is the price of true freedom.
I could not put it better.