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Criminals for Gun Control vi (Read 10263 times)
mozzaok
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #45 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 2:50pm
 
I have no problem with, hunters, sports shooters, and farmers, owning appropriate weapons, but when I use the term 'Gun Nuts", I refer to people who think they should have the right to carry automatic weapons, in public, just because they have not been convicted of a violent criminal offense, because it just smacks of wild west/spy drama fantasy stuff to me.

As far as personal security goes, I really believe that people would be safer with a good security system in the house.
No kids have accidentally killed their little brother, or sister, with a security system.

I firmly believe that guns in the home increase the chance of violent deaths in the home, the opposite of what many pro gun advocates would like us to believe.

Calanen posted a link where people phoned up, reckoned they saved lives, but if you want a real study, with proper credentials, then here is one from five years ago, in the US.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/160/10/929

Their findings?
Guns in the home, increase gun deaths in the home.
Of course I am not surprised, it is only common sense.

The reality of our lives is that if something ugly and violent happens, even if we own guns, we are unlikely to be prepared to combat it in a way we would anticipate, so I totally dismiss the protection scenario, on a widespread basis, I will agree their would be individual circumstances, where some people who may be specifically targeted by criminals, would want to be excluded from any bans, and they could only be determined on a case by case basis.

I think that owning a gun, is not anyone's right, and I never want to see australia consider it as one.

As far as guns for the population, to keep governments in line, well Homer said it best.

"You want the king of england to come into our home and start pushing us around?"
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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!
 
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locutius
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #46 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 4:49pm
 
A King of England once made it mandatory to not only keep arms but to maintain them and be proficient with them.

I believe it is a right for sane citizens of clean record to keep arms that are in line with their levels of training and clearence as monitored by a license/registration system. And while I do not advocate the gun on hip lifestyle for Australia there are certainly places in the world that are still wild enough that I would do that. If I were infatuated with such a life style I would go and live in those places.

I understand your point about home defence and it is a valid one. However I will categorically say with complete confidence that I don't believe my home is made less safe because of the presence of firearms. If we ever live on a rural property I would build a Panic room for my family, as a back up I would make sure my wife was as proficient and deliberate having a gun in her hands as I would be.

Like I said I am happy for such a situation never to present itself, it is my hope and my expectation. To expose my little boy to such a scene of terror and gore is not something that could be considered a wholesome choice. My view of someone who might put me in that position is simply that they are vermin.

Funny, even at a very young age I could not connect the logic that said nations/governments could control thousands/millions of armed men not just for protection against invaders, but also to project their political and economic interests and force abroad. Even justifying vindictive brutality on an opponent that was spent and population unable to carry any meaningful resistance, yet an individual on civie street had to be careful to only use necessary force to subdue an attacker. Woe to you if you could not convince the law that you truely held your life to be in danger if your violence was excessive. And an attacker might even sue you. Good grief.

The thuggery and trivialized violence that is increasing on our streets and leading to murdering people at taxi ranks etc that the offender walks away with "diminished responsibility" and no severe jail time is in my eyes more concerning than lax gun laws.
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mozzaok
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #47 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 5:35pm
 
Nobody would ever argue against a man's desire to keep his family safe, and I fully sympathise with those who believe that they need a gun to do that.

My point is whether or not the actual outcomes, match the expectations?

Is allowing fear to propel us to extremes a proportional, and rational, or even effective, response?

And what level of arming oneself is acceptable?

Some would like a machine gun turret on the roof, others a discrete little 22 in their pocket, mind you that wouldn't have the raw WOW factor of an automatic 45, or the stopping power, but is the aim to take on a neanderthal thug or two, or whether you are expecting bolivia to invade your backyard?

I have said it before, I don't like guns, I don't like having them stuck in my face, I don't like crooks having them, and I don't like fanatics having them, and mostly I don't like the thought of unstable people having them.

The simple mathematical probability is that the more there are, the more likely that more of them will fall into the hands of the very angry, and the very unstable, or the very depressed, and I don't like any of those probabilities.

I still contend that good home security can be organised, without firearms, in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases, and that is how it should remain.

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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #48 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm
 
Quote:
I still contend that good home security can be organised, without firearms, in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases, and that is how it should remain.


Then you are a fool, and I sincerely hope you never have to find out how much of a fool you really are.

I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

If you meet someone, that may allegedly be prepared to commit a crime like that.. in your home in the middle of the night, tough guy, you better hope that you have something better than an alarm system.

And all of the people like mantra can tell you how he is just a poor petal who has lost his way in life and just wants some money, and doesnt really want to hurt anyone...and that he will leave your house as soon as you ask nicely.....as he cuts you to ribbons and laughs about it to his friends when he's getting his next hit of heroin. You and your family are dead or disfigured for life, but that's a small price to pay to make sure that no one but the government has any weapons.
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ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #49 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm
 
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #50 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:05pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Are you posting on Her Majesty Pleasure?

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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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Calanen
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #51 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
Yadda
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #52 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm
 
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.

Did you get him off?
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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tallowood
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #53 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.

Did you get him off?



Is it the hammer time?  Shocked

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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #54 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:32pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.

Did you get him off?



Is it the hammer time?  Shocked


Whoosh... That's the impact of the point passing over your head.
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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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tallowood
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #55 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:39pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:32pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.
Did you get him off?

Is it the hammer time?  Shocked

Whoosh... That's the impact of the point passing over your head.


Didn't miss you though  Shocked

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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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mantra
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #56 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:42pm
 
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
If you meet someone, that may allegedly be prepared to commit a crime like that.. in your home in the middle of the night, tough guy, you better hope that you have something better than an alarm system.

And all of the people like mantra can tell you how he is just a poor petal who has lost his way in life and just wants some money, and doesnt really want to hurt anyone...and that he will leave your house as soon as you ask nicely.....as he cuts you to ribbons and laughs about it to his friends when he's getting his next hit of heroin. You and your family are dead or disfigured for life, but that's a small price to pay to make sure that no one but the government has any weapons.


I have no sympathy or compassion for those who terrorise people.  I would love to have a little hand gun tucked away, but within easy reach for an emergency.

Unfortunately accidents do happen to those who are careless, deranged or inexperienced.  There doesn't seem to be a real answer to the problem of self protection.

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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #57 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:45pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:39pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:32pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?


Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.
Did you get him off?

Is it the hammer time?  Shocked

Whoosh... That's the impact of the point passing over your head.


Didn't miss you though  Shocked



'Fraid so... You're not going to ford that river in one night... It's going to take time.

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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #58 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:50pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:45pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:39pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:32pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?

Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.
Did you get him off?

Is it the hammer time?  Shocked

Whoosh... That's the impact of the point passing over your head.

Didn't miss you though  Shocked

'Fraid so... You're not going to ford that river in one night... It's going to take time.


one two, right now, its time,
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עַם יִשְרָאֵל חַי
 
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NorthOfNorth
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Re: Criminals for Gun Control vi
Reply #59 - Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:55pm
 
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:50pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:45pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:39pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:32pm:
tallowood wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:25pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:17pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 11:16pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:37pm:
Calanen wrote on Apr 14th, 2009 at 10:24pm:
I had a client who the Police alleged robbed a guy and slashed up his face with a knife. Allegedly, of course, .....

Let me tell you I don't scare easy, but I was really glad when I met him in court that he was behind 9 feet of bullet proof glass.

Did you get him off, counsellor?

Stop addressing me fool.

I'm addressing you counsellor.
Did you get him off?

Is it the hammer time?  Shocked

Whoosh... That's the impact of the point passing over your head.

Didn't miss you though  Shocked

'Fraid so... You're not going to ford that river in one night... It's going to take time.


one two, right now, its time,

I bet the counsellor got the point.

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Conviction is the art of being certain
 
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