In his testimony throughout the Bible, the message from God, to mankind, is clear.

God has asked [required] mankind to,



...as a child walks throughout life, respectfully, with his/her parent...



Genesis 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Deuteronomy 8:6
Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

Deuteronomy 13:4
Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

2 Chronicles 6:14
And said, O LORD God of Israel, there is no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and shewest mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts:

Nehemiah 5:9
Also I said, It is not good that ye do: ought ye not to walk in the fear of our God because of the reproach of the heathen our enemies?

Psalms 56:13
For thou hast delivered my soul from death: wilt not thou deliver my feet from falling, that I may walk before God in the light of the living?

Jeremiah 7:23
But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

Jeremiah 42:3
That the LORD thy God may shew us the way wherein we may walk, and the thing that we may do.

Micah 6:8
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

1 Thessalonians 4:1
Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more.


+++++++++


Those who are God's obedient children [will] walk before him.

That is the 'position' of those who become God's 'children'.

God's children respect and love him, and are loved in return.







It is the proud, and, the enemies of God, which are [and will be] forced to bow down before God.







....this [above] is what my God requires, of muslims.

My God requires that his enemies, become his slaves.






Psalms 146:8
The LORD openeth the eyes of the blind: the LORD raiseth them that are bowed down: the LORD loveth the righteous:




I love my God, because of his righteousness.

And he is the God of Israel,
....yesterday, today and forever.

He is so wise, he is so just, and he is righteous.






Because in the hardness of men's hearts [not only muslims], all those that refuse to be his children [and refuse to walk in HIS righteousness], by default choose [their own] bondage.

In God's wisdom, in God's plan for mankind, my God brings the wicked to that place, where they themselves, choose their own evil fate.


From the Koran,


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.120





Psalms 9:16
The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.


Job 12:16
With [God] is strength and wisdom: the deceived and the deceiver are his.


Isaiah 2:11
The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day.
12  For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:


Psalms 52:1
Why boastest thou thyself in mischief, O mighty man? the goodness of God endureth continually.
2  Thy tongue deviseth mischiefs; like a sharp razor, working deceitfully.
3  Thou lovest evil more than good; and lying rather than to speak righteousness. Selah.


Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.



MORE.....

Believe ye in part of the Scripture and disbelieve ye in part thereof?
Qur'an 2:85

As always Yadda, you take a part of a book which suits your desires and you try to claim it negates something else, which clearly also exists in the same book. Like prostration or "falling on the face" as it is described in the Bible. It was the way the Prophets (pbut) worshipped, and it's the way all Muslims today worship also.

In fact the Hebrew word for bow/prostrate שחה (shachah) appears 172 times in the OT, and in the vast majority of those cases it refers to worshipping of God.

Genesis 24:26 And the man bowed down his head, and worshipped the LORD

Genesis 24:48 And I bowed down my head, and worshipped the LORD, and blessed the LORD God of my master Abraham, which had led me in the right way to take my master's brother's daughter unto his son.

Genesis 24:52 And it came to pass, that, when Abraham's servant heard their words, he worshipped the LORD, [bowing himself] to the earth.

Exodus 4:31 And the people believed: and when they heard that the LORD had visited the children of Israel, and that he had looked upon their affliction, then they bowed their heads and worshipped.

2Chroniicles 7:3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the LORD, [saying], For [he is] good; for his mercy [endureth] for ever.

2Chronicles 20:18 And Jehoshaphat bowed his head with [his] face to the ground: and all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem fell before the LORD, worshipping the LORD.

Psalms 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.

And the list goes on... and on...

Also in the NT, we find statements like this:

Romans 14:11 For it is written, [As] I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Ephesians 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

The Greek word κάμπτω (kampto) meaning to bow oneself in religious veneration, clearly describes a prayer that resembles that which you are now mocking and chastising, claiming it to be insincere and impious.

Also the phrase "fell on his face" is used several times in the Bible to describe the method of prayer of the Prophets:

Abraham (pbuh):
Genesis 17:3 And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying

Joshua (pbuh):
Joshua 5:14 And he said, Nay; but [as] captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

David (pbuh):
1Samuel 20:41 [And] as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of [a place] toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.

Jesus (pbuh):
Matthew 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou [wilt].

I don't know about you, but to me that sounds like a very good description of this kind of prayer:

Photograph courtesy of Yadda.

So I call you to worship the way Jesus (pbuh) did, by falling on your face prostrate to your Lord and Creator, instead of worshipping the one who himself recognises he must bow down and prostrate to another.

Stop attacking that which even your own book and beliefs testify is the method of worship of the Prophets of God (pbut). By seeking  to attack Islam, you end up criticising and attacking your own Messiah (pbuh), the Prophets mentioned in your books, and your own religion. This should indeed be a warning sign for you of how misguided your intentions are in these attacks.

Essentially Abu's contention is that muslims strictly follow their holy texts, while others are less worried about following all instructions, and are happy to pick the bits that are relevant, and make sense to them.

Clearly, if you really believe that your book is god's word, then you would be expected to gfollow it pretty much to the letter.

Is this a sleight on christianity?

Not really, I think contrarily, it is a sign of an evolving group, who have seriously looked at it's teachings, and faced the fact that they are indeed man made beliefs, but still like to believe they were divinely inspired, hence they are sifting through their teachings, searching for truly spiritual, worthwhile teachings to follow.

I hope Islam can do similiar.

mozzaok,

Quote:


That's not my contention at all. Yadda contended that Prostration and bowing are impious and foreign to Judaeo-Christians, I merely used their own books to prove him wrong.

I have no claim, merely wanted to dispel his false claims that prostration is wrong and/or unBiblical.

As is mentioned in my opening sentence:

Quote:

This may be a bit esoteric.



Quote:


Galatians 3:28-29

An heir is not a slave, yet they are not free.

Yadda,

Quote:


You just can't seem to break out of the same old cycle can you? I don't doubt the Bible says "walked with God", but you seem to constantly neglect that it speaks also about prostration and bowing. Likewise you now move onto the issue of "children" and "servant", both of them appear in the Bible. I am aware both terminologies exist in the Bible, but you seem to deny the word servant is there.

Let us examine the word servant a little more closely, because in Biblical Hebrew and Qur'anic Arabic they are actually the exact same word Abad (from where we get the names Abd'allah, Abd'ar-Rahman etc meaning the servant of God). In Hebrew the word is עבד ('ebed) and in Arabic it is عبد ('abad), the two having just slightly different vowel inflections.

This word appears an astonishing 800 times in the OT. And in quite a lot of those occurences it refers to 'servants of God' or 'worshippers of God', as this primitive Semitic verbal root has both the meaning of serve and worship in most of the Semitic languages, including both Hebrew and Arabic.

Here are a few examples:

Joshua 24:29 And it came to pass after these things, that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, [being] an hundred and ten years old.

Psalm 18:1 [[To the chief Musician, [A Psalm] of David, the servant of the LORD, who spake unto the LORD the words of this song in the day [that] the LORD delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul: And he said,]] I will love thee, O LORD, my strength.

Psalm 105:6 O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen.

Psalm 105:42 For he remembered his holy promise, [and] Abraham his servant.

Jeremiah 33:21 [Then] may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.

Ezekiel 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, [even] my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Isaiah 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Daniel 10:17 For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me.

Nehemiah 1:6-8 Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned. We have dealt very corruptly against thee, and have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, nor the judgments, which thou commandedst thy servant Moses. Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, [If] ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:

And even later books of the Bible, which used Aramaic instead of Hebrew, use the Aramaic word, which is also the same as the Hebrew and Arabic, but is actually pronounced 'Abad, same as the Arabic.

The Aramaic word 'Abad appears 7 times in the OT and in most of those cases it refers to a worshipper/servant of God.

Ezra 5:11 And thus they returned us answer, saying, We are the servants of the God of heaven and earth, and build the house that was builded these many years ago, which a great king of Israel builded and set up.

Daniel 3:26 Then Nebuchadnezzar came near to the mouth of the burning fiery furnace, [and] spake, and said, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, ye servants of the most high God, come forth, and come [hither]. Then Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, came forth of the midst of the fire.

Daniel 3:28 [Then] Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed [be] the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.

Daniel 6:20 And when he came to the den, he cried with a lamentable voice unto Daniel: [and] the king spake and said to Daniel, O Daniel, servant of the living God, is thy God, whom thou servest continually, able to deliver thee from the lions?

So again it would appear that whilst trying to make an unsuccessful and obviously ignorant attack on Islam, you actually end up attacking your own religion and holy book. Why on earth you'd be ashamed to be referred to as a servant of God is beyond me. It is in fact a great honour, and as mentioned in your own books above is even a term used for the special messengers of God, his prophets.

There's no doubt the world children is used to refer to the relationship of God to men in the Bible, but I doubt it's used as many times as the word servant. And even if it were more used, that still wouldnt subtract from the fact the Bible uses servant.

Why do muslims think that pointing their buts towards heaven and their heads towards earth pleases allah?

I take that rant as an admission all your previous posts were misdirected and ignorant. And that you now concede that prostration, bowing and being a servant (slave if you will) of God are all part of not just the Qur'anic tradition, but the Biblical tradition also.

Thank you.