BUMP.

Can't see the original point of reference that started the friendship debate but I think it was Yadda or Soren. I will keep looking because I thought they had a quote from the Koran or Hadith.

locutius wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 2:27pm:


Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them. Allah then states that they are friends of each other and He gives a warning threat to those who do this,

وَمَن يَتَوَلَّهُمْ مِّنكُمْ فَإِنَّهُ مِنْهُمْ﴾

(And if any among you befriends them, then surely he is one of them.)

Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that `Umar ordered Abu Musa Al-Ash`ari to send him on one sheet of balance the count of what he took in and what he spent. Abu Musa then had a Christian scribe, and he was able to comply with `Umar's demand. `Umar liked what he saw and exclaimed, "This scribe is proficient. Would you read in the Masjid a letter that came to us from Ash-Sham'' Abu Musa said, `He cannot.'' `Umar said, "Is he not pure'' Abu Musa said, "No, but he is Christian.'' Abu Musa said, "So `Umar admonished me and poked my thigh (with his finger), saying, `Drive him out (from Al-Madinah).' He then recited,

﴿يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَـرَى أَوْلِيَآءَ﴾

(O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends...)'' Then he reported that `Abdullah bin `Utbah said, "Let one of you beware that he might be a Jew or a Christian, while unaware.'' The narrator of this statement said, "We thought that he was referring to the Ayah,

﴿يَـأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ لاَ تَتَّخِذُواْ الْيَهُودَ وَالنَّصَـرَى أَوْلِيَآءَ﴾

(O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, )'' Allah said,

﴿فَتَرَى الَّذِينَ فِى قُلُوبِهِم مَّرَضٌ﴾

(And you see those in whose hearts there is a disease...) A disease of doubt, hesitation and hypocrisy.﴿يُسَـرِعُونَ فِيهِمْ﴾

(they hurry to their friendship,) meaning, they rush to offer them their friendship and allegiances in secret and in public,

﴿يَقُولُونَ نَخْشَى أَن تُصِيبَنَا دَآئِرَةٌ﴾

(saying: "We fear lest some misfortune of a disaster may befall us.") They thus offer this excuse for their friendship and allegiances to the disbelievers, saying that they fear that the disbelievers might defeat the Muslims, so they want to be in favor with the Jews and Christians, to use this favor for their benefit in that eventuality! Allah replied,

﴿فَعَسَى اللَّهُ أَن يَأْتِىَ بِالْفَتْحِ﴾

(Perhaps Allah may bring a victory...) referring to the conquering of Makkah, according to As-Suddi.

﴿أَوْ أَمْرٍ مِّنْ عِندِهِ﴾

(or a decision according to His will) requiring the Jews and Christians to pay the Jizyah, as As-Suddi stated,

﴿فَيُصْبِحُواْ﴾

(Then they will become) meaning, the hypocrites who gave their friendship to the Jews and Christians, will become,

﴿عَلَى مَآ أَسَرُّواْ فِى أَنفُسِهِمْ﴾

(for what they have been keeping as a secret in themselves) of allegiances,

﴿نَـدِمِينَ﴾


(regretful,) for their friendship with the Jews and Christians which did not benefit them or protect them from any harm. Rather, it was nothing but harm, as Allah exposed their true reality to His faithful servants in this life, although they tried to conceal it. When the signs that exposed their hypocrisy were compiled against them, their matter became clear to Allah's faithful servants. So the believers were amazed at these hypocrites who pretended to be believers, swearing to their faithfulness, yet their claims were all lies and deceit. This is why Allah said, s


﴿وَيَقُولُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ أَهُـؤُلاءِ الَّذِينَ أَقْسَمُواْ بِاللَّهِ جَهْدَ أَيْمَـنِهِمْ إِنَّهُمْ لَمَعَكُمْ حَبِطَتْ أَعْمَـلُهُمْ فَأَصْبَحُواْ خَـسِرِينَ ﴾


(And those who believe will say, "Are these the men who swore their strongest oaths by Allah that they were with you'' All that they did has been in vain, and they have become the losers.)


﴿يأَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِى اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَـفِرِينَ يُجَـهِدُونَ فِى سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلاَ يَخَـفُونَ لَوْمَةَ لائِمٍ ذلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَآءُ وَاللَّهُ وَسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ - إِنَّمَا وَلِيُّكُمُ اللَّهُ وَرَسُولُهُ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ الَّذِينَ يُقِيمُونَ الصَّلوةَ وَيُؤْتُونَ الزَّكَوةَ وَهُمْ رَاكِعُونَ - وَمَن يَتَوَلَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ فَإِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْغَـلِبُونَ ﴾


(54. O you who believe! Whoever from among you turns back from his religion (Islam), Allah will bring a people whom He will love and they will love Him; humble towards the believers, stern towards the disbelievers, fighting in the way of Allah, and never fearing the blame of the blamers. That is the grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He wills. And Allah is All-Sufficient for His creatures' needs, All-Knower.) (55. Verily, your Protector is Allah, His Messenger, and the believers, those who perform the Salah, and give Zakah, and they bow down.) (56. And whosoever takes Allah, His Messenger, and those who have believed, as protectors, then the party of Allah will be the victorious.)

http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/

Clear enough for you? The Arabic is even there so no one can say - bad translation

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In answer to your question, the main verse of the Koran that you are referring to:

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The English is a translation of Ibn Kathir's exegesis of the Qur'anic verse which is quoted here in Arabic.

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Yes, but your claim was that the Arabic text is there to see... so it can't be a mistranslation, which as I'm sure you'll realise is bollocks. the Arabic text still just says awliya, so you haven't provided anything new at all.

Yes Ibn Kathir is quite a respected exegete of the Qur'an, but it's still just an English translation, the original word he's using (that's translated here as friends) is most likely still awliya. So as I said, you've added nothing new to the equation.

God places great emphasis on the defence of the freedom and independence of Islam against the dangers posed by the evil plots of its enemies. After enumerating some of the characteristics of the unbelievers and their evil objectives, God warns Muslims of the dangers of being friendly with them, placing reliance on them, and against surrendering their resources and powers to them. He warns them against following the unbelievers and thus directly or indirectly helping them in realizing their objectives. The Islamic State should not form friendly alliances with the unbelievers, nor are their covenants to be fully trusted. Some Quranic verses in this context may be referred to:



O believers, take not for your intimates outside yourselves; such men spare nothing to ruin you; they yearn for you to suffer. Hatred has already shown itself of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is yet greater. Indeed, We have made Our signs clear to you, if you understand them. (3:118)



O believers, do not take the Jews and Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, he is one of them. Surely God does notguide the evildoers. (5:51)



O believers, do not take for guardians those who take your religion for a mockery and a joke, from among those who were given the Book before you and the unbelievers; and fear God, if you are believers. (5:57)



O believers, do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends; would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the Truth, expelling the Apostle and yourselves because you believe in God, your Lord? If you go forth to struggle in My path and seek My good pleasure, would you show love for them in secret? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest, and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path. (60:1)



O believers, do not take the unbelievers for friends rather than the believers, do you desire that you should give to Allah a manifest proof against yourselves? (4:144)



O believers, do not make friends with a people with whom God is wroth; indeed they despair of the Hereafter as the unbelievers despair of those in graves. (60:13)



Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; for whoso does that belongs not to God in anything, unless you have a fear of them. God warns you that you beware of Him, and unto God is the eventual coming. (3:28)

In addition to the traits of the unbelievers enumerated earlier the following can also be inferred from the verses quoted above:

1. The unbelievers nurture malice towards the believers and do not spare anything for harming them in any possible way.

2. Their enmity of Muslims finds expression in what they say, but the intensity of their unexpressed enmity, hidden in their hearts, is far greater.

3. They can never accept your religion and they make fun of it.

4. They are enemies of Muslims and of God, and do not accept the Quranic teachings.

God, after warning us of the characteristics of the unbelievers, makes it explicit that they are not well‑wishing friends of the believers and the believers should not consider them as their friends, guardians, and defenders, and should not reveal their secrets to them. They are un­trustworthy and so are their pacts and promises. The Muslims should not allow them to plan on their behalf and to decide for them. They should not let the unbelievers take charge of their institutions and decide their policies and execute their programmes, and they should not let themselves be deceived by their apparently well‑wishing but inwardly injurious suggestions. This point is repeatedly stressed, and finally it is declared that a Muslim who males any pact of friendship and alliance with the unbelievers ceases to be one of the Islamic Ummah and the Party of God.

Friendship with unbelievers is considered even as a sign of disbelief

And had they believed in God and the Prophet (S) and what was revealed to him, they would not have taken them (the unbelievers) for friends, but most of them are transgressors. (5:81)

You shall not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day be­friending those who act in opposition to Allah and His Apostle, even though they were their [own] fathers, or their sons, or their brothers, or their kinsfolk. (58:22)

In these Quranic verses the basic guide‑lines of an Islamic govern­ment's external policy in relation to the countries having no faith in God is clearly and explicitly laid down. Muslims are categorically commanded to guard and defend their independence and freedom, and not let the unbelievers to infiltrate and interfere in their internal affairs. Muslims are asked to be on guard against them. All relations and pacts which would ultimately lead to the increasing influence and domination of unbelievers over the affairs of Muslims are illegitimate and must be abstained from. The Quranic injunction in this regard is not only clear but also categorical:

... And Allah will by no means give the unbelievers a way against the believer‑s [to dominate them]. (4:141)

G- Difference between Islam and Christianity  

It is said about Christianity that it has the distinction of not having any rule governing war. We, on the other hand, say that Islam has the distinction of having the law of jihad. If we look closely, we see that in Christianity there is no jihad because it has nothing at all. By which I mean that there is no Christian structure of society, no Christian legal system, and no Christian rules as to how a society is to be formed, for these to contain a law of jihad.

There is no substance in Christianity; it contains no more than a few moral teachings that form a set of advice such as "tell the truth", "do not tell lies", "do not gobble up the wealth of others", and so on. Such things do not call for jihad? Islam however is a religion that sees it its duty and commitment to form an Islamic state.

Islam came to reform society and to form a nation and government. Its mandate is the reform of the whole world.  

Such a religion cannot be indifferent. It cannot be without a law of jihad. In the same way, its government cannot be without an army.

While the scope of Christianity is extremely limited, that of Islam is extremely wide. While Christianity does not cross the frontiers of advice, Islam is a religion which covers all the activities of human life.

It has laws which govern the society, economic laws, and political laws. It came to organize a state, to organize a government. Once this done, how can it remain without an army? How can it be without a law of jihad?  

Jihad
The Holy War of Islam and Its Legitimacy in the Quran

Ayatullah Morteza Mutahhari

Translated by:
Mohammad Salman Tawhidi

http://www.al-islam.org/short/jihad/index.html

The problem is, we are applying our misunderstander infidel Islam to the interpretation of the true meaning of Islam. What we should do instead, is get some good Saudi textbooks for school kids, and see what they say the young people should believe.

That way, our infidel misunderstander wrongheaded imperialist biggotted fascist racism can be correct. Ok, then - let's do some learnin' shall we, and get edumacated:

http://www.hudson.org/files/pdf_upload/saudi_textbooks_final.pdf

Some choice examples:
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The original texts are available in Arabic, and were translated by two independent translators. The US government relied on them to protest the way in which these books were being used.

The more important factor is that the Saudi Ministry of Education gives these hate filled textbooks out for free to Islamic schools around the world.

So there you have it. I hope your 'misunderstandings' regarding the true message of Islam have been cured.