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100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West' (Read 10127 times)
freediver
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #45 - Nov 27th, 2008 at 9:42pm
 
Quote:
So till politicians stop fear the truth the closest to reality confirmed by available data we have is the statement:


No. You just have to employ different methods to those you suggested. That doesn't mean giving up and relying instead on absurd conjecture. That statement is just a starting point. It's about as far from the reality as you can get.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #46 - Nov 27th, 2008 at 9:55pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2008 at 9:42pm:
Quote:
So till politicians stop fear the truth the closest to reality confirmed by available data we have is the statement:


No. You just have to employ different methods to those you suggested. That doesn't mean giving up and relying instead on absurd conjecture. That statement is just a starting point. It's about as far from the reality as you can get.


No. It is you who have to employ different methods if you don't like  those I have suggested. Till then the truth closest to reality confirmed by available data we have is the statement:
"The Minister of Justice in Denmark reported that 76.5% of the rapes in Copenhagen were committed by non-native Danes, and over 3/4 of non-native Danes are Muslim."
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freediver
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #47 - Nov 27th, 2008 at 10:03pm
 
So in other words we don't have a clue what is really going on, but you will assume Muslims are rapists until someone proves otherwise? Sort of like guilty until proven innocent?
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #48 - Nov 27th, 2008 at 10:07pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2008 at 10:03pm:
So in other words we don't have a clue what is really going on, but you will assume Muslims are rapists until someone proves otherwise? Sort of like guilty until proven innocent?


You mean you don't have a clue what is really going on I use available data to make a high probability conclusion, which is:

Quote:
the truth closest to reality confirmed by available data we have is the statement:
"The Minister of Justice in Denmark reported that 76.5% of the rapes in Copenhagen were committed by non-native Danes, and over 3/4 of non-native Danes are Muslim."




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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #49 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:03am
 
That's not a conclusion. That's an admission that we can't get close to the reality - at least not based on the little info you have found. A 'high probability' implies that you actually have a position, not that you can't.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #50 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:41am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 27th, 2008 at 4:02pm:
Wrong. They have no mandate authorise anything on behalf of a person merely because of ethnicity. They have no authority.



FD,

Religious leaders within muslim communities, claim that they are 'properly guided', by Allah, to lead muslims.

So these leaders DO have, said mandate.



The Koran commands muslims to obey the clerics only.

Don't be disobedient to ISLAM, and the clerics....


"O ye who believe! Obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak).
Nor be like those who say, "We hear," but listen not:
For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not."

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/008.qmt.html#008.020


ALWAYS BELIEVE THE CLERICS, ALWAYS BE OBEDIENT TO 'ALLAH' [i.e. the clerics].

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the messenger," [i.e. obey the clerics]
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#047.033


BELIEVE NO ONE,
.....UNLESS HE IS A MUSLIM.

"And believe no one unless he follows your religion.......True guidance is the Guidance of Allah:....He knoweth all things."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/003.qmt.html#003.73



Even secular press mirror this opinion...

'Turn the world to Islam'
March 11, 2007
The faithful are told to obey only Sharia law.
....One book, Man-Made Laws Vs. Shari'ah, urges Muslims not to "accept anything from their governments and rulers except sharia", stating any other system is heresy.
http://www.news.com.au/sundayheraldsun/story/0,21985,21359122-2862,00.html




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #51 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:45am
 
Quote:
So these leaders DO have, said mandate.


No they don't, not even by their own standards.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #52 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:54am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:03am:
That's not a conclusion. That's an admission that we can't get close to the reality - at least not based on the little info you have found. A 'high probability' implies that you actually have a position, not that you can't.


I repeat that it isn't me but you who can't get close to the reality.

As for myself I use available data to make a high probability conclusion, which is:


the truth closest to reality confirmed by available data we have is the statement:
"The Minister of Justice in Denmark reported that 76.5% of the rapes in Copenhagen were committed by non-native Danes, and over 3/4 of non-native Danes are Muslim."


That is GOOD ENOUGH because: "Remember, the politics is all about risk management, not proof.

It is irrational to demand proof in the face of risk. " (c) - freediver



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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #53 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:56am
 
I'm not asking for proof, I'm asking for a reasonable standard of evidence.

If this really is about risk management, what is the 'management solution' you have in mind? Do nothing? Find out more about the issue? Act in ignorance? Acting on a very small amount of dodgy, misinterpretted stats is hardly sound risk management.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #54 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:03am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:56am:
I'm not asking for proof, I'm asking for a reasonable standard of evidence.

If this really is about risk management, what is the 'management solution' you have in mind? Do nothing? Find out more about the issue? Act in ignorance? Acting on a very small amount of dodgy, misinterpretted stats is hardly sound risk management.


I have provided the reasonable standard of evidence more so then you did in environment topic. So if it isn't good enough for you here then your posts about environment risks are useless.

Which one it is?




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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #55 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:06am
 
Quote:
Which one it is?


You are wrong.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #56 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:08am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:06am:
Quote:
Which one it is?


You are wrong.


I am right, you are wrong.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #57 - Nov 28th, 2008 at 11:08am
 
freediver wrote on Nov 28th, 2008 at 10:45am:
Quote:
So these leaders DO have, said mandate.


No they don't, not even by their own standards
.



FD,

On what basis do you suggest this?




My take is.....

To avoid any 'collective' responsibility [for the unlawful actions of members of their community], muslim community leaders will claim,
......"We have no hierarchy within ISLAM. There is no overriding controlling body, or authority for muslims."

That is what they tell the dumb [ignorant] Kuffar - when it suits their purposes.



But within their own community, when speaking to their own, they use threats of Allah's hell, and threats of real corporeal violence against any muslim who acts in an un-ISLAMIC way.

And the clerics back those threats up, with those verses from the Koran, which clearly enforce and confirm their authority to make corporeal decisions which direct the lives of all devout muslims.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #58 - Dec 5th, 2008 at 7:10pm
 
freediver wrote on Nov 26th, 2008 at 11:55am:
So you can't back it up?


http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/08/rape-nothing-to-do-with-islam.html

Rape: Nothing to do with Islam?

I got some comments, among others from Norwegian blogger Bjørn Stærk, to my posts about the Norwegian government covering up the number of rapes committed by immigrants. The Swedish government is probably even worse, but Sweden is in many ways collapsing. Although he agreed that the statistics should be published, he questioned whether these rapes have anything to do with Islam. It is true that mass rapes of "the enemy's women", in part to humiliate the enemy's men, is not unique to Islam. It has been done at times of war by the Vikings, the Mongols, the Germans and the Russians during WW2, and all the way up to the Balkans in the 1990s. That's also my point. The number of rapes committed by Muslim immigrants in Western nations are so extremely high that it is difficult to view them only as random acts of individuals. It resembles warfare. This happens in most Western European countries, as well as in other infidels countries such as India. In Bradford, England, Channel 4 pulled a documentary about Pakistani and other Muslim men sexually abusing white English girls, some as young as 11. Writer Theodore Dalrymple thinks that "thanks to their cultural inheritance, (Muslim) abuse of women is systematic rather than unsystematic as it is with the whites and blacks." In France, grotesque reports about systematic gang rapes of French or "too Western" Muslim girls keep coming in. At the same time, European jails are getting filled up with Muslims imprisoned for robberies and all kinds of violent crimes, and Muslims bomb European civilians. You can see the mainstream media are struggling to make sense of all of this. That's because they can't, or don't want to, see the obvious: This is exactly how an invading army would behave. Rape, pillage and bomb.

I disagree that this has nothing to do with Islam. Muhammad himself had forced sex (rape) with several of his slave girls/concubines. This is perfectly allowed, both in the sunna and in the Koran. If you postulate that many of the Muslims in Europe view themselves as a conquering army and that European women are simply war booty, it all makes perfect sense and is in full accordance with Islamic law. And Muslims do follow their medieval religious laws, even today:

Robert Spencer on rape and jihad

What does rape, then, have to do with these religious conflicts? Unfortunately, everything. The Islamic legal manual ‘Umdat al-Salik, which carries the endorsement of Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, stipulates: “When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman’s previous marriage is immediately annulled.” Why? So that they are free to become the concubines of their captors. The Qur’an permits Muslim men to have intercourse with their wives and their slave girls: “Forbidden to you are ... married women, except those whom you own as slaves” (Sura 4:23-24).

After one successful battle, Muhammad tells his men, “Go and take any slave girl.” He took one for himself also. After the notorious massacre of the Jewish Qurayzah tribe, he did it again. According to his earliest biographer, Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad “went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for [the men of Banu Qurayza] and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches.” After killing “600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900,” the Prophet of Islam took one of the widows he had just made, Rayhana bint Amr, as another concubine.

Emerging victorious in another battle, according to a generally accepted Islamic tradition, Muhammad’s men present him with an ethical question: “We took women captives, and we wanted to do ‘azl [coitus interruptus] with them.” Muhammad told them: “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.’” When Muhammad says “it is better that you should not do it,” he’s referring to coitus interruptus, not to raping their captives. He takes that for granted.

Here's what Vice Director of Jihad Watch, Hugh Fitzgerald, whom I rate in league with Ali Sina and Ibn Warraq as among the best commentators of Islam in this age, has to say about the issue (scroll down):

'For her to be absolved from guilt, a raped woman must have shown good conduct'

For non-Muslim women, they are in every respect -- the way they walk, the way they talk, those bedroom eyes we all know so well -- simply asking for it, and Muslim men have every right to do what they wish.

It is not understood that Western women are not so much regarded by most Muslims as individuals, but as "their women," the women who "belong" to hostile Infidels. They are booty, to be taken, just as the land of the Infidels someday will drop, it is believed, into Muslim hands -- by demographic conquest rather than military conquest. It has worked in many parts of Africa; and if Muslims fail to reproduce even faster than they do, there is always the expedient of killing the remaining Infidels.

Article continues at link.
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Quote:
ISLAM is a vicious [un-reformable] political tyranny, which has always murdered its critics, and it continues that practice even today.
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Re: 100's of muslim apostates, murdered in the 'West'
Reply #59 - Dec 6th, 2008 at 2:42pm
 
Calanen wrote on Dec 5th, 2008 at 7:10pm:
......In France, grotesque reports about systematic gang rapes of French or "too Western" Muslim girls keep coming in. At the same time, European jails are getting filled up with Muslims imprisoned for robberies and all kinds of violent crimes, and Muslims bomb European civilians. You can see the mainstream media are struggling to make sense of all of this. That's because they can't, or don't want to, see the obvious: This is exactly how an invading army would behave. Rape, pillage and bomb.




Calanen,

Good post!



And, we are in denial.

As bizarre as it sounds, our culture is willingly, 'accommodating' those who wish to destroy our culture, and wish to kill us,
....because we are not them.

Our leaders insanely look to PR consultants in forming government policy [instead of TRUTH].
....well, this approach has worked for decades!

Our community leaders view ISLAM as a 'religion', and therefore view it, and muslims as benign,
....or at worst misunderstood.

And after decades of muslim migration into the West, the TRUTH about nature of ISLAM / devout muslims is in our face, but we still refuse to acknowledge it.

Its all very surreal.




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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