Australian Politics Forum - Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims

Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40840 Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #45 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:54pm He does not have to. He is a muslim, errors don't count. Watch for the deleting.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #46 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:28pm

Since it was revealed in stages, it addressed society at different times, when it had advanced in some things. For example, alcohol. It was originally only discouraged, but was later forbidden.

Abrogation would only point to inconsistency if the author were not outside of time.

Even from the point of view of human beings who are subject to time. If I encouraged a smoker to cut down, and then later told him to quit, I would not be inconsistent in my treatment towards him.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40840 Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #47 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 9:12pm Abu - so allah was unaware alcohol should be banned from the word go ?
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #48 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 9:14pm sprint, did you actually read anything i wrote? (or should I say did you actually comprehend??) Judging by your question it would appear not.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Online OzPolitic Posts: 40840 Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #49 - Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 9:21pm yes, i read it. I disbelieved it.
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #50 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:45am abu_rashid wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 6:56pm: Quote: Abu, your very first post in response to mine was abusive. It was not abusive at all. Rubbish, don't lie. You called me a liar. You can't be trusted to tell the truth. You know how you responded and now you're lying about it.
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abu_rashid Gold Member Offline Aussie Muslim Posts: 8353	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #51 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 6:55am I did no such thing you liar!
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jordan484 Gold Member Offline Genuine Aussie Posts: 1115	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #52 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:11am You can't recall your comments regarding me having a beer and enjoying pork as a favourite meal? Interesting.
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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #53 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:20am

I remember them quite clearly, just don't remember calling you a liar (well not except for about 20 minutes ago in this thread).

But if you'd like to dredge them up, please feel free.

Either way, I don't see why you're even mentioning it? I merely mentioned mozza's comments, to put my attitude towards mozza into perspective for Gaybriel. If Gaybriel were to question you about your attitude towards me, then I could see a context to this...

Or did you not like being left out? And had to add your gripe about your first encounter with someone??

Poor little jordy wordy Sad

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jordan484

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #54 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 7:28am

I can't be responsible for your poor and/or selective memory. I mentioned it because you were complaining of abuse being directed at you, when you do the exact same thing to others. And your response has been a typical muslim response...denial, deflection, arrogance, belittling. Of course you can't admit fault or apologise, that's very un-muslim like.

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"We should always say that I may refrain from publishing a cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, but it's because I fear you. Don't for one moment think it's because I respect you." Richard Dawkins

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mozzaok

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #55 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 8:23am

You overpersonalise the relationship you have to your religion.
I can find a religion to be ridiculous and immoral, in my personal opinion, without thinking that all it's followers are ridiculous and immoral.

It is a matter of degree, the sillier a religion is, then it is usually only the extremists and zealots, that accept it's silliness in totality, and by doing so, behave in a silly fashion.

The day to day followers are more concerned with their day to day lives, and a background spirituality that they can relate to, without going to extremes.

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OOPS!!! My Karma, ran over your Dogma!

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abu_rashid

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #56 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 8:41am

Quote:

I mentioned it because you were complaining of abuse being directed at you,

This is the thing jordan, if you read the whole discussion, you'd see I didn't complain at all. I merely highlighted for Gaybriel, who asked, why I don't consider mozzaok's questions about Islam sincere.

Although you'd like to cast everything Muslims say as complaining, the simple fact is in this case it is not. I did not volunteer the information out of context nor randomly, as you did.

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims Reply #57 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 8:47am For your information Aboo... mozz used to be one of the bigger apologists for you lot. I think his questions are very sincere.
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freediver

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #58 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 10:09am

Isn't that a form of deception? Muhammed led his followers to believe alcohol would be permitted, perhaps in smaller quantities, but later insisted it was completely banned.

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 7:07pm:

Locutius,

Quote:

Abu, you habitually let slip the word 'decadence' into this sentence about the West.

I do? Can you show me some examples of it? Since it's habitual, you should be able to find 100's of cases right?

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1220782413/113#113

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: Abrogation is a sticking point for non-Muslims
Reply #59 - Oct 24^th, 2008 at 3:31pm

abu_rashid wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2008 at 8:28pm:

Since it was revealed in stages, it addressed society at different times, when it had advanced in some things. For example, alcohol. It was originally only discouraged, but was later forbidden.

Abrogation would only point to inconsistency if the author were not outside of time.

Even from the point of view of human beings who are subject to time. If I encouraged a smoker to cut down, and then later told him to quit, I would not be inconsistent in my treatment towards him.

"......Abrogation would only point to inconsistency if the author were not outside of time."

abu,

Logically, surely you have got this statement, back to front?

i.e.

"......Abrogation would only point to inconsistency if the author were not outside of time."

If i assume God is out side of time [and i do], he knows our future, and abrogation would be a defunct, redundant concept, as God can see all points in, and along our earth time-line?

Surely abrogation can only be justified if the author were not outside of time [i.e. if he could not predict, did not have fore-knowledge ] ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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