Australian Politics Forum - Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'

muso

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #15 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 6:08pm

Actually on that Convention, the myth that casual use of marijuana could lead to having THC metabolite in the urine for up to a month was totally exploded.

There have been cases, but they were real hard core users - 6 cones per night or more. Those cases represent a considerably higher risk to society because the impairment is virtually continuous until they get off the habit.

For casual users, it is detectable for 3-5 days.

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mozzaok

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #16 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 7:21pm

6 cones per night???
One of my early girlfriends wouldn't even get out of bed until she had at least seven cones.

People get hysterical about pot, my experience was the ones who tripped out, were f...ed in the head before they started, and pot may have acted as a catalyst, but it was not the cause.

I know it is only anecdotal, but I have known a lot of people, and some just want an excuse for being unable to keep their sh1t together, if it weren't pot, it would be something else, they are a tragedy, looking for a stage.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #17 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 8:03pm Very true. We all know someone who has been smoking longer than 20 years and is fine. We all also know someone who after a year loses the plot and is never the same again. I blame hydro.
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muso

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #18 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:05pm

mozzaok wrote on Oct 15^th, 2008 at 7:21pm:

6 cones per night???
One of my early girlfriends wouldn't even get out of bed until she had at least seven cones.

People get hysterical about pot, my experience was the ones who tripped out, were f...ed in the head before they started, and pot may have acted as a catalyst, but it was not the cause.

I know it is only anecdotal, but I have known a lot of people, and some just want an excuse for being unable to keep their sh1t together, if it weren't pot, it would be something else, they are a tragedy, looking for a stage.

OMG

- I'd regard somebody in that category as unemployable, at least in my industry. They would be an accident waiting to happen and we wouldn't touch them with a bargepole. Somebody who is smoking that amount of pot is an addict and already on the slippery slope.

We do pre-employment and ongoing drug and alcohol testing. The standard for THC is 4ng. The standard for alcohol is no detectable reading.

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« Last Edit: Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:13pm by muso »

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41813 Gender:	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #19 - Oct 15^th, 2008 at 9:18pm pot seems to drain peoples motivation MUCH moreso than alcohol. Noone has ever died from smoking pot. Many have died from drinking. I dont think the laws are going to change.
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mozzaok

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #20 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 7:33am

Quote:

pot seems to drain peoples motivation

"sprint"

I won't argue with that, I have seen many examples of that, though I don't know if it is totally chemically induced, or at least, significantly increased through the corresponding lifestyle of "stoners".

Quote:

OMG Huh- I'd regard somebody in that category as unemployable, at least in my industry.

"muso"

Ha ha, she was a law student at the time, and got all honours and distinctions too, I may add.

Now a successful (very), legal eagle, and assigned her wild youthful exuberances into the past, where they rightly belong, but it is illustrative of the concept of pigeon holing people through some behaviours, as fundamentally flawed.

Like I said, we are all different, and the effects of pot is far more subtle than alcohol, and you can be very stoned, but very focused.

How many artists, musicians, etc. produced their greatest works through drug effected brains?

Pot is nowhere near as simple as the effects of alcohol.

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muso

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #21 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:38am

I guess it's a question of risk. Some people might be able to handle that with no problem, but a sizeable proportion will have health issues either while on the drugs or down the track.

Maybe the legal profession don't have such a high level of screening, but if she were applying for a job in hazardous industry or mining, she wouldn't even get a second chance. We can't really test for whether that person has the strength of character to prevail or not, so we just don't take the chance. As far as we are concerned, if they're junkies, they're f'd. Unacceptable risk. Leave well alone.

Now the risk for her personally might be low - she might have a very strong will etc but we have to take it on a population basis. A sizeable proportion of the population are weak willed, and for them that rate of use would have serious implications.

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« Last Edit: Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:44am by muso »

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mozzaok

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #22 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:29am

I certainly do not disagree muso, and I would not object to legal pot being regulated, my main point of disagreement is with our society's "criminalisation" of pot users.
Like ALL drugs, there are risks involved, which vary from individual to individual, and we do need to have some fairer system than prohibition, it is unfair, and counter productive.

Human nature has seen, pretty well, all peoples have some drug use in their society, I guess we like the escapism of it.

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Amadd

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #23 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 4:33pm

I can't see how those figures of 17.5% could be accurate.

Anybody who knows pot smokers, or was/is one themselves knows better.
Alcohol is far more dangerous.

I know pot smokers who have been doing it for years and years. After 20 pipes in a night, they can play guitar and vidoe games almost faultlessly, and then drive home with no problem.
You'd have no idea at all that they're stoned.
However, if I were to have one pipe of their killer weed, it would blow my head off.

IMO, immunity is built up very quickly to the effects of THC, but this immunity wouldn't alter the
the reading you'd get from a drugs test.

From my experiences, people drive more carefully under the influence of THC, whereas people under the influence of alcohol drive more recklessly and are less able to control their vehicle.

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Lestat

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #24 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:14pm

Amadd wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 4:33pm:

I can't see how those figures of 17.5% could be accurate.

Anybody who knows pot smokers, or was/is one themselves knows better.
Alcohol is far more dangerous.

I know pot smokers who have been doing it for years and years. After 20 pipes in a night, they can play guitar and vidoe games almost faultlessly, and then drive home with no problem.
You'd have no idea at all that they're stoned.
However, if I were to have one pipe of their killer weed, it would blow my head off.

IMO, immunity is built up very quickly to the effects of THC, but this immunity wouldn't alter the
the reading you'd get from a drugs test.

From my experiences, people drive more carefully under the influence of THC, whereas people under the influence of alcohol drive more recklessly and are less able to control their vehicle.

Agree with everything you've said 100%, from my experiences...alcohol is far more dangerous, both to society and to individuals, then dope.

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Израиль Навсегда Posts: 8214 Gender:	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #25 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 9:55pm "Alcohol is far more dangerous." IMHO, Schapelle Corby would disagree.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41813 Gender:	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #26 - Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:14pm The proof is in the eating. Countries "on" alcohol do better than countries "on" pot.
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Kytro Gold Member Offline Blasphemy: a victimless crime Posts: 3409 Adelaide Gender:	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #27 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 7:31am Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 11:14pm: The proof is in the eating. Countries "on" alcohol do better than countries "on" pot. Huh? What do you mean by this?
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41813 Gender:	Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol' Reply #28 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 8:49am Countries that have a reputation for drinking (Aussie, Ireland) are "better" to live in than countries that are known for pot smoking (New Zealand, jamacia). I have the feeling I am going to get soundly laughed at for that comment !!
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Kytro

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Re: Cannabis 'less harmful than alcohol'
Reply #29 - Oct 17^th, 2008 at 8:58am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 8:49am:

Countries that have a reputation for drinking (Aussie, Ireland) are "better" to live in than countries that are known for pot smoking (New Zealand, jamacia).

I have the feeling I am going to get soundly laughed at for that comment !!

Ahh.

From nation master:

The top 10 countries on "pot":
#1    New Zealand: 22.23%
#2    Australia: 17.93%
#3    United States: 12.3%
#4    United Kingdom: 9%
#5    Switzerland: 8.5%
#6    Ireland: 7.91%
#7    Spain: 7.58%
#8    Canada: 7.41%
#9    Netherlands: 5.24%
#10 Belgium: 5.01%

The Top 10 on booze:
#1    Luxembourg: 15.5 litres per capita
#2    France: 14.8 litres per capita
#3    Ireland: 13.5 litres per capita
#4    Hungary: 13.4 litres per capita
#5    Czech Republic: 12.1 litres per capita
#6    Spain: 11.7 litres per capita
#7    Denmark: 11.5 litres per capita
#8    Portugal: 11.4 litres per capita
#9    United Kingdom: 11.2 litres per capita
#10 Austria: 11.1 litres per capita

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