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Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry (Read 9133 times)
abu_rashid
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Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Aug 14th, 2008 at 8:23pm
 
freediver,

I was looking over your wiki entry about Islam and I just wanted to challenge  a certain them that recurs a few times there:

Quote:
Islam differs from what most Australians typically think of as religion in that it doubles as a system of government. Muslims are commanded to live by the local laws if they are living in a non-Muslim state, but the mechanism for turning a non-Muslim state into a Muslim one is ambiguous. Hostility towards Islam is considered justification for conquest. Such hostility seems inevitable if a large group of people try to undermine our values and system of government.


Quote:
If Australia was at war with the Caliphate, Australian Muslims would be required to take up arms against Australia. There is no clear guideline for identifying when this should occur.


Are you aware of the history of Abyssinia? And it's relationship to  Islam..

In the earliest days of Islam, much like we are again today, Muslims were a weak and oppressed people, stateless and seeking to establish themselves, a small group of the close family/companions of Muhammad (pbuh) were given permission to migrate to Abyssinia, to seek refuge there from the persecution they were suffering in Makkah. Muhammad (pbuh) advised them that the King of Abyssinia was a just and pious man, and that they would be safe there. There was a famous encounter that occured when the Makkans sent a delegation to seek the repatriation of the Muslims. The cousin of Muhammad (pbuh) Ja'far (May God be pleased with him), presented the case of the Muslims to the King of Abyssinia, and he agreed to let the Muslims stay and live in safety.

Due to this kind and noble treatment of the Abyssinians towards the Muslims, the Islamic Caliphate for centuries never dared to attack the Christian Kingdom of Abyssinia, even though all the lands around it became Muslim, and it remained that way pretty much until the 1500's with the arrival of the Europeans, who sought to use the Christian Kingdom to their advantage against the Muslims.

This example indicates quite clearly that Muslims are quite capable of having peaceful relations with people who wish to remain Christian, especially if they'd shown kindness and mercy to the Muslims when they were in need. However, I can only imagine how a re-established Caliphate would look back from the future on a nation that vilified it's Muslim minority and sought to demonise them as an evil presence that should be opposed, fought and expelled.

Just some food for thought Smiley
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #1 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 9:46pm
 
OK, I guess I better stop criticising then.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #2 - Aug 14th, 2008 at 10:55pm
 
I didn't say that. If you were to stop, then you'd have nothing to do Smiley

But at least try and be a little more even handed when you write that kind of stuff, and really I think the vast majority of the confrontational atmosphere that is developing between Muslims and non-Muslims is based on this kind of one-sided view of the relationship. And I admit it happens from both sides, but I think you'll find a lot more Muslims are willing to turn things around, if you are.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #3 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 10:57am
 
Wat exactly are they willing to turn around?
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 11:25am
 
The hostile atmosphere that sentiments like your wiki entry create.
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abu_rashid  
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #5 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 11:27am
 
Why does the wiki entry create hostility? I tried to limit the list to things that Muslims agree with. You yourself acknowledge that Islam disagrees with many aspects of western culture.

I don't agree with refraining from statments of fact because people react with hostility to them. The wiki entry is not vilification.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #6 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:13pm
 
Obviously the parts quoted in my initial post.

It's a starting point anyway.

It's not so much about what's there, it's the manner in which it's written. It's not just objectively highlighting differences it's inferring that Muslims cannot live in Australia peacefully and should be expelled.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:21pm
 
I think it actually states that Muslims are obligued to live by the local laws, so it hardly infers they cannot live peacefully. The only potential 'solution' brought up is reform within Islam. Other than that, there is nothing about it that points towards expulsion of Muslims.

How exactly does it differ from objectively highlighting differences? What is it about the manner in which it is written? It just seems like a very nebulous criticism.
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abu_rashid
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:34pm
 
think fifth column...

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Anyway it's up to you, if you're happy with the way it is, leave it.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:41pm
 
abu_rashid wrote on Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:34pm:
think fifth column...

I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. Anyway it's up to you, if you're happy with the way it is, leave it.


Haven't you and Malik inferred that anyway? A Muslim can currently be a resident but are obliged to migrate to Caliphate. If a Caliphate is at war with the host country, Muslims must take up arms against the host country? "I am a Muslim first, an Australian second" etc? Sounds much like a Fifth Column to me. They're your words.

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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2008 at 12:49pm
 
I have no idea what you are talking about Abu.

You are welcome to have a go at modifying it yourself. That's the whole point of making it a wiki.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #11 - Aug 17th, 2008 at 7:29pm
 
Freediver posting a wiki entry about Islam and muslim values is like Hitler posting a wiki entry about Jewish value's in Germany in the 1930's.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #12 - Aug 17th, 2008 at 7:30pm
 
Wasn't it Islam and Aussie values?
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #13 - Aug 17th, 2008 at 9:34pm
 
Yes it was, but don't let little details like that get in the way of an ad hominem.
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Re: Islam & Aussie Values Wiki Entry
Reply #14 - Nov 14th, 2008 at 1:25pm
 
Does Abyssinia have anything to do with Lebanon?

I'd appreciate the newcomer's (Phillip, Daniel and Emily) feedback on the wiki:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/wiki/index.php?title=Islam_and_Australian_values
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