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U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In (Read 3797 times)
CountArach
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #15 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:14pm
 
Quote:
The West ISN'T setting up democracies in the Middle East

Yes they are. In Iraq and Afghanistan.

I will agree with you here freediver, the West is setting up democracies in the Middle East. The problem is that they are literally setting them up and influencing the election outcomes. Once this stops we will see some real self-determination from the Iraqis and the Afghans, which will in turn pull them away from the extremist wing of Islam.
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #16 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:24pm
 
I certainly hope so. I see it a bit like humanity's experimentation with communism last century. This is the first time (I think) that democracy has been imposed on a hostile population by a totally alien society. The results look promising so far, but it is fragile.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #17 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:24pm:
The results look promising so far, but it is fragile.


In what way does it look promising? And for whom?

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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #18 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:46pm
 
The locals turn up to vote. The people they elected are not nutcases. It is a good sign for the local people because they are taking up the opportunity to rid themselves of oppression, despite their distate for the US.
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CountArach
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #19 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 9:36pm
 
Acid Monkey wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:43pm:
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:24pm:
The results look promising so far, but it is fragile.


In what way does it look promising? And for whom?


America Wink

I do think that Maliki has proven himself partially responsible and less of a puppet than I thought he would be (His recent comments about the Timetable for withdraw are a good example), however he has still sold off his nation's oil supplies to the Americans - something that is clearly not to the benefit of his people.
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Malik Shakur
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 9:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:46pm:
The locals turn up to vote. The people they elected are not nutcases. It is a good sign for the local people because they are taking up the opportunity to rid themselves of oppression, despite their distate for the US.

Oh yes, all running swimmingly.

Quote:
Afghan warlords 'threaten poll'
By Andrew North
BBC correspondent in Kandahar 


The power of Afghan armed factions means elections there will go ahead in an environment of fear and repression, US-based Human Rights Watch says.
A 51-page report released on Tuesday says local warlords are involved in widespread intimidation aimed at affecting the 9 October poll results.

Most are former mujahideen leaders and are resisting efforts to disarm them.

The study says warlords are using threats of violence to ensure people vote for their preferred candidate.

While the continuing Taleban insurgency often gets more headlines, it is the grip these commanders retain that worries more people here.

'US complacency'

In some areas the report, entitled The Rule of the Gun, argues the power of the warlords is so entrenched that political activists and journalists are censoring themselves for fear of retaliation.


The US group also attacks the American government for complacency about the country's election process and for continuing to work with many of these warlord figures in its war on terror, a strategy it calls self-defeating.

Speaking just before the report's release, the US ambassador to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, acknowledged the issue.

However, he said progress is being made in what he called breaking the back of warlordism.

But it is partly because so many militia commanders are still in power that many believe it is too dangerous to hold polls in Afghanistan now, including several candidates who have called for the polls to be postponed.

And Human Rights Watch says the risks have been increased by serious shortcomings in the election organisation process as well as with the level of independent monitoring.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/3695684.stm
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Malik Shakur
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Re: U.S. Abandons Afghan Base, Taliban Move In
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 9:46pm
 
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 11:56am:
The West ISN'T setting up democracies in the Middle East

Yes they are. In Iraq and Afghanistan.

Those are not proper democracies, you act as if the people in Afghanistan and Iraq now have the bill of rights to cover and protect their freedoms, that's not the case at all. These 'democracies' mean you can vote in your government but if you speak out against that government they will put you in prison or send you to guantanamo bay.

freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 11:56am:
And you ask why don't they fight? They have fought, in the 60's and 70's they did fight. The US then upped it's military aid to the government

So Some money to the Egyptian government explains how they kept the entire middle east oppressed agaisnt the wishes of the locals?

I was referring to mainly Egypt, but their military and financial support of other dictators in the Mid East is obvious and are the reason why they are still in power.
freediver wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 11:56am:
I also find it astounding that you consider the Wests interference in the Middle East as 'low level'.

In a historical context it is. They are not physically occupying it. Fancy being able to oppress an entire region of the globe so easily, despite the fact that the locals are of a different religion and want to use that religion to unite against you (supposedly). It just doesn't make sense. 

Have you not paid any attention to the rule of Augusta Pinochet and other US Proxies in history? The US doesn't have to occupy the nation to be oppressive to it.
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