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Drugs are good for you (Read 9537 times)
freediver
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #30 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:16pm
 
The graph " assesses drugs on the harm they do to the individual, to society and whether or not they induce dependence. "

So the graph also reflect the extent of the use of the drug and is not limited to the nature of the drug itself?
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:20pm
 
Pommy Bastard wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:08pm:
And that laughter/orgasm lasts seconds, whereas the "high" from an "E" (or more than one) lasts for 8 + hours, so they are not comaparable. Unless you claim the abillity to piss yourself laughing, or come, for 8+ hours? (If so, I'm very jelous!!)


Well, I once had a laughing fit that lasted over an hour and probably nearly killed me with exhaustion but then again, that was under the influence - and lets not go there. It was a long time ago. LOL.  Wink

Pommy Bastard wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:08pm:
The graph " assesses drugs on the harm they do to the individual, to society and whether or not they induce dependence. "


Yeah, I gathered that. But what do the numbers actually represent - eg: heroin is scored at approx 2.75 out of a scale of 3. It means nothing unless you relate it to something like (say) 2.75 out of 3 people (92%) die when taking heroin.

And, what sort of harm do they mean - long term harm or risk of (say) overdose. I've noticed that GHB is almost level with ecstasy despite the fact that one can OD on GHB more easily than E.
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« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:27pm by Acid Monkey »  
 
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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:41pm
 
As you have noted the "harm" level of each drug, as posited by this study is multi-dimensional;

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/news/2007/5367.html

gives a good indication of how the study was done.
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #33 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:01pm
 
Thanks for the link.

Quote:
Professor David Nutt from the University of Bristol, Professor Colin Blakemore, Chief Executive of the Medical Research Council, and colleagues, identified three main factors that together determine the harm associated with any drug of potential abuse:

1.   the physical harm to the individual user caused by the drug
2.   the tendency of the drug to induce dependence
3.   the effect of drug use on families, communities, and society

Within each of these categories, they recognized three components, leading to a comprehensive 9-category matrix of harm.


Point 3 is rather subjective isn't it? I mean, drug addiction has different impacts on individuals and their family. I used to know a guy who can stop using heroin at a drop of the hat with no major impact to himself. However, the impact to communities and society is measurable such as drug related crimes, health care, medical expenses, hospital resources to cope with drug addiction, mental health care, rehabilitaion and post rehab etc.

Also, it would be nice to know what the 9 category matrix of harm is.
Quote:


Expert panels gave scores, from zero to three, for each category of harm for 20 different drugs. All the scores for each drug were combined to produce an overall estimate of its harm.


I thought there was a lot more to it. Not very scientific, don't you think. A roomful of experts cast a vote between 0 to 3 and the total is then averaged out and there's your chart?? Is that scientific method going to convince the UK govt to change their drug classification?
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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:07pm
 
So expert panels of people with real expertise in dealing with drug use, harm, enforcement, and treatment, gave their opinions which were filtered down to give a matrix, vs the random "ooh that's a drug, better ban it and bang people up for using it" as we have now.

Which would you prefer? Smiley
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freediver
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #35 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:10pm
 
Perhaps if they asked the experts to consider the traits of the drug itself and ignore issues derived from prevalence of use then the results would have been more meaningful. Perhaps they did do this, but it is ambiguous at best.
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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #36 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:18pm
 
Why do you think that?
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #37 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:28pm
 
Well, I was hoping for something more detailed than that.

First of all who are these experts? Are they abolitionist or pro-legalisation? Their personal bias counts and will affect the overall average score. What are their field of expertise? Are they research fellows, scientists, counsellors or general practitioners? Eg: an counsellor for AA would have no experience with someone experiencing severe lysergic induced psychotic episodes

What research papers are they using to back up their personal opinions and hence their personal score of 0-3.

Some examples:
"Psychiatric Effects of Cannabis" - A. John, research paper published in the British Journal of Psychiatry, 2001

"Adolescent Drug Use and Pyshological Health" - J Shedler, J Block, research paper published in the American Psychologist, 1990

"Effects of Alcohol on Human Agression" - BJ Bushman, HM Cooper, research paper published in the Psychological Bulletin, 1990
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freediver
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #38 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 5:30pm
 
Because it is useful to know how much specific drugs are used in our society. It is also useful to know how 'inherently dangerous' each drug is. But if you mix the two measures, you lose information rather than gaining it. A bit like entropy really.
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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #39 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:00pm
 
I'm sorry acid monkey, you seem to have mistaken me for the reports author, and  am not a Nutt!  Angry
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #40 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:01pm
 
Pommy Bastard wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:00pm:
I'm sorry acid monkey, you seem to have mistaken me for the reports author, and  am not a Nutt!  Angry


Grin Grin Grin

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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #41 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:04pm
 
Here you go;

Quote:
The ACMD is required to have at least 20 members, among them representatives of the practices of medicine, dentistry, veterinary medicine and pharmacy, the pharmaceutical industry, and chemistry (other than pharmaceutical chemistry); and members who have a wide and relevant experience of social problems connected with the misuse of drugs. Membership currently stands at 38, including the Chair. The current term of office for members began on 1 January 2005. It will expire on 31 December 2007. All members are unpaid, although expenses are reimbursed.

A listing of its members, as of July 2006:

Professor Michael Rawlins (Chairman) - Professor of Pharmacology, University of Newcastle
Dr Dima Abdulrahim - Briefings Manager, National Treatment Agency
Lord Victor Adebowale - Chief Executive, Turning Point
Mr Martin Barnes - Chief Executive, Drugscope
Dr Margaret Birtwistle - Specialist GP, Senior Tutor - Education and Training Unit, St George's Hospital & Forensic Medicine Examiner
Reverend Martin Blakeborough - Director, Kaleidoscope Drugs Project, Kingston upon Thames
Dr Cecilia Bottomley - Specialist Registrar in Obstetrics and Gynaecology
Ms Carmel Clancy - Principal Lecturer in Mental Health and Addictions, Middlesex University.
Professor Ilana Crome - Professor of Addiction Psychiatry, Keele University Medical School, Harplands Hospital.
Ms Robyn Doran - Registered Mental Health Nurse & Service Director, Substance Misuse CNWL Mental Health Trust.
Ms Dianne Draper - Public Health Policy Support Officer, Leeds
Mr Robert Eschle - School Teacher and Magistrate
Ms Vivienne Evans - Chief Executive, ADFAM
Professor C Robin Ganellin FRS - Emeritus Professor of Medicinal Chemistry
Dr Clare Gerada - General Practitioner (London Practice) and Primary Care Lead for Drug Misuse & Chair at the Royal College of General Practitioners.
Mr Patrick Hargreaves - Adviser for Drugs and Alcohol, Durham County Council Education Department
Mr Paul Hayes - Chief Executive, National Treatment Agency
Mr Andrew Hayman - Assistant Commissioner, Metropolitan Police, Chair of ACPO Drugs Committee
Mr Russell Hayton - Clinical Nurse Specialist & Clinical and Services Governance Manager, Plymouth Drug & Health Behaviour
Ms Caroline Healy - Director, Childline.
Dr Matthew Hickman - Deputy Director, Centre for Research on Drugs & Health Behaviour, Senior Lecturer in Public Health
Mr Alan Hunter - Director, Law Regulatory & Intellectual Property and Secretary to the Association of British Pharmaceutical Industries
Professor Leslie Iversen - Professor of Pharmacology, University of Oxford
His Honour Judge Trevor Joseph - Resident Judge, Croydon Crown Court
Professor Michael Lewis - Professor of Oral Medicine, Cardiff University
Dr John Marsden - Research Psychologist, Institute of Psychiatry.
Mr Peter Martin - Former Chief Executive, Addaction.
Mrs Samantha Mortimer - Head of PSHE and Citizenship, St Paul's Catholic High School, Manchester
Professor David Nutt - Director of Psychopharmacology Unit, University of Bristol
Mr Richard Pates - Consultant Clinical Psychologist & Clinical Director Community Addiction Unit, Cardiff
Mr Trevor Pearce - Acting Director General, National Crime Squad.
DCC Howard Roberts - Deputy Chief Constable, Nottinghamshire Police
Mrs Kay Roberts - Lead Pharmacist - Royal College of General Practitioners, National Drug Misuse Training Programme.
Dr Mary Rowlands - Consultant Psychiatrist in Substance Misuse, Exeter
Dr Polly Taylor - Veterinary Surgeon
Ms Monique Tomlinson - Freelance Consultant in Substance Misuse
Mr Arthur Wing - Assistant Chief Officer, Sussex Probation Area
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #42 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:08pm
 
Whoa!
Cool. Thanks.
I'll check it out.

Smiley
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Pommy Bastard
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #43 - Jul 22nd, 2008 at 6:13pm
 
If you've the desire, and the patience, you may enjoy this;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/1031/1031.pdf

PDF file, 1.5mb.
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Acid Monkey
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Re: Drugs are good for you
Reply #44 - Jul 23rd, 2008 at 5:27pm
 
Pommy Bastard wrote on Jul 22nd, 2008 at 4:08pm:
Available under license from a reputable pharmacy should suffice.



Schedule C will make them available from pharmacies but by prescription only.
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