Australian Politics Forum - the public service

deepthought

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Re: the public service
Reply #15 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:02pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 5:57pm:

Your original statement was that 'departmental and divisional heads are invariably permanent public servants' and this is not correct. Ongoing or fixed term SES public servants are not permanent public servants, their employment can be terminated by the government of the day. Non-SES public servants (and those who are not on Public Service fixed term contracts - which differs from SES contracts) are permanent public servants and no permanent public servant in any state, so I believe, is employed at senior level. The senior level includes directors, executive directors, divisional and departmental heads. All these positions are occupied by non-permanent public servants. If the Government of the day can terminate your employment at any time, you are not a permanent public servant.

The State Of The Service is wrong?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: the public service
Reply #16 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:11pm

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:02pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 5:57pm:

Your original statement was that 'departmental and divisional heads are invariably permanent public servants' and this is not correct. Ongoing or fixed term SES public servants are not permanent public servants, their employment can be terminated by the government of the day. Non-SES public servants (and those who are not on Public Service fixed term contracts - which differs from SES contracts) are permanent public servants and no permanent public servant in any state, so I believe, is employed at senior level. The senior level includes directors, executive directors, divisional and departmental heads. All these positions are occupied by non-permanent public servants. If the Government of the day can terminate your employment at any time, you are not a permanent public servant.

The State Of The Service is wrong?

Where in the stats you googled up did it state that senior public servants were permanent? Fixed term and ongoing SES public servants are not permanent public servants.

Do you think ongoing means forever?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53282 At my desk.	Re: the public service Reply #17 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:16pm I'm pretty sure he gets it Helian. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
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deepthought

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Re: the public service
Reply #18 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:21pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:11pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:02pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 5:57pm:

Your original statement was that 'departmental and divisional heads are invariably permanent public servants' and this is not correct. Ongoing or fixed term SES public servants are not permanent public servants, their employment can be terminated by the government of the day. Non-SES public servants (and those who are not on Public Service fixed term contracts - which differs from SES contracts) are permanent public servants and no permanent public servant in any state, so I believe, is employed at senior level. The senior level includes directors, executive directors, divisional and departmental heads. All these positions are occupied by non-permanent public servants. If the Government of the day can terminate your employment at any time, you are not a permanent public servant.

The State Of The Service is wrong?

Where in the stats you googled up did it state that senior public servants were permanent? Fixed term and ongoing SES public servants are not permanent public servants.

It's not a case of googling up stats, I got the figures from the annual report. Fixed term employees are not classified as 'ongoing'. They are known as 'non-ongoing' and are not permanents, they are contract or 'temporary' staff.

There are three categories of employment for public servants and two acts which apply to the employment of people working within the public service.

The Public Service Act 1999 states what the three categories are. They are

(a) as an ongoing APS employee (indefinite duration, ie permanent); or

(b) for a specified term or for the duration of a specified task (temporary); or

(c) for duties that are irregular or intermittent (casual).

And that's it.

If you are a public servant you are one of those categories. And at the end of last financial year there were 143,525 ongoing staff (permanent) and 11,957 non-ongoing staff (temporary).

No googling required.

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: the public service Reply #19 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:23pm freediver wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:16pm: I'm pretty sure he gets it Helian. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong. If I am wrong freediver, then correct me. Don't flame mate, it's silly on a grown ups board.
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deepthought

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Re: the public service
Reply #20 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

Still it gives freediver an opportunity to make himself look silly as he flames.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: the public service
Reply #21 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:48pm

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm:

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

What is the status of a SES Public Servant whose contract is terminated?

How many departmental heads (state and federal) are not SES Public Servants?

How many divisional heads of those departments are not SES public servants?

What is the status of the incumbent of a public service role which is senior but is in conflict with SES guidelines?

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deepthought

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Re: the public service
Reply #22 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:58pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:48pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm:

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

What is the status of a SES Public Servant whose contract is terminated?

How many departmental heads (state and federal) are not SES Public Servants?

How many divisional heads of those departments are not SES public servants?

What is the status of the incumbent of a public service role which is senior but is in conflict with SES guidelines?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

I'm not that bored that I feel a need to educate you dudes.

Hey freediver, perhaps you can help him mate? Could you tell him

"I'm pretty sure he gets it deepy. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong."

Ha ha ha ha ha

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53282 At my desk.	Re: the public service Reply #23 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 7:15pm Fair enough deepy, you know the definitions used by the public service better than I.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39872 Gender:	Re: the public service Reply #24 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 7:35pm DT... Quote: But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector....... I don't believe you. It was you who, with that post, referenced your private life. Wanna prove it?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: the public service
Reply #25 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:28pm

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:48pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm:

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

What is the status of a SES Public Servant whose contract is terminated?

How many departmental heads (state and federal) are not SES Public Servants?

How many divisional heads of those departments are not SES public servants?

What is the status of the incumbent of a public service role which is senior but is in conflict with SES guidelines?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

I'm not that bored that I feel a need to educate you dudes.

Hey freediver, perhaps you can help him mate? Could you tell him

"I'm pretty sure he gets it deepy. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong."

Ha ha ha ha ha

So you don't know then? You couldn't google it?

Invariably permanent?

Those questions should be easy for one who is well versed 'about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.'

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: the public service Reply #26 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:30pm Aussie wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 7:35pm: DT... Quote: But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector....... I don't believe you. It was you who, with that post, referenced your private life. Wanna prove it? I don't mind whether you believe me or not mate. If you don't that's cool.
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deepthought

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Re: the public service
Reply #27 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:30pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:28pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:48pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm:

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

What is the status of a SES Public Servant whose contract is terminated?

How many departmental heads (state and federal) are not SES Public Servants?

How many divisional heads of those departments are not SES public servants?

What is the status of the incumbent of a public service role which is senior but is in conflict with SES guidelines?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

I'm not that bored that I feel a need to educate you dudes.

Hey freediver, perhaps you can help him mate? Could you tell him

"I'm pretty sure he gets it deepy. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong."

Ha ha ha ha ha

So you don't know then? You couldn't google it?

Invariably permanent?

Those questions should be easy for one who is well versed 'about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.'

I don't do consultancy work.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: the public service
Reply #28 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:32pm

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:30pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:28pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:58pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:48pm:

deepthought wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 6:31pm:

Incidentally I suspect this is not what the thread is about but I know this stuff like I know the back of my hand, I'm happy if you want to keep being wrong. But I told you I have worked in both the private and the public sector and there isn't much I don't know about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.

What is the status of a SES Public Servant whose contract is terminated?

How many departmental heads (state and federal) are not SES Public Servants?

How many divisional heads of those departments are not SES public servants?

What is the status of the incumbent of a public service role which is senior but is in conflict with SES guidelines?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha

I'm not that bored that I feel a need to educate you dudes.

Hey freediver, perhaps you can help him mate? Could you tell him

"I'm pretty sure he gets it deepy. He just doesn't want to admit he's wrong."

Ha ha ha ha ha

So you don't know then? You couldn't google it?

Invariably permanent?

Those questions should be easy for one who is well versed 'about the legislation and the resourcing aspects of the PS.'

I don't do consultancy work.

Not much point, you wouldn't know what to report.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: the public service Reply #29 - Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:33pm NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 3^rd, 2008 at 8:32pm: Not much point, you wouldn't know what to report. No money in it.
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