Australian Politics Forum - jail time for price fixers

freediver

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jail time for price fixers
Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:04pm

This should prevent companies from taking a purely economic approach to cartels:

Price-fixers may get jail terms: govt

http://news.smh.com.au/pricefixers-may-get-jail-terms-govt/20080111-1lfo.html

People found guilty of price fixing could face jail terms of up to five years under beefed-up legislation proposed by the federal government.

The federal government has released draft legislation to amend the Trade Practices Act, adding jail terms and harsher fines for companies and individuals who engage in serious cartel conduct.

Presently, there is no provision in the Act for the jailing of anyone proven to have engaged in cartel behaviour.

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deepthought

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #1 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:15pm

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:04pm:

This should prevent companies from taking a purely economic approach to cartels:

Price-fixers may get jail terms: govt

http://news.smh.com.au/pricefixers-may-get-jail-terms-govt/20080111-1lfo.html

People found guilty of price fixing could face jail terms of up to five years under beefed-up legislation proposed by the federal government.

The federal government has released draft legislation to amend the Trade Practices Act, adding jail terms and harsher fines for companies and individuals who engage in serious cartel conduct.

Presently, there is no provision in the Act for the jailing of anyone proven to have engaged in cartel behaviour.

Nor should there be. This isn't the Soviet Union.

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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #2 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:45pm Nor should there be. This isn't the Soviet Union. Don't be so pessimistic DT. Give Liebor time...they only 6 weeks into it. It takes time to create a Stalinist state
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 47364 At my desk.	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #3 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:47pm Um, price fixing is what communists do. It is pretty much universally illegal in capitalist countries.
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IQSRLOW Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 1618	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #4 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:55pm I don't think they have found that many incidences of it happening anyway...except for Visy just recently. It's another Labor govt feel-good measure.
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freediver

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #5 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 6:05pm

That visy thing was a preety big deal. It cost a lot of businesses a lot of money. Changing the penalty to jail time is a bit more than a feel good gesture. It reflects public impatience with the ability of very wealthy people to get away with ripping people off. Sooner or later someone is going to end up in jail because of it. A lot more people who are currently getting away with price fixing are going to think twice, now that the penalty is not just financial.

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deepthought

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #6 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 7:12pm

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 5:47pm:

Um, price fixing is what communists do. It is pretty much universally illegal in capitalist countries.

There are lots of examples of 'price fixing'. OPEC sets oil prices, airlines set their international ticket prices under the guise of group cooperation, health funds have their prices set for them by government and in many countries price fixing is encouraged to protect local industry.

But I'm not talking about price fixing anyway. I'm talking about draconian legislation which turns business people into gaolbirds. Instead of very large fines which enrichen the country the Liebor government dig deeper into our pockets to house businessmen/women with rapists, child molesters and motherphuquers.

It's medieval in its context. It's Liebor's back to the future style in action. Prison is not the place for business people.

Though knowing Liebor pollies as everyone does it may be the safest place . . .

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« Last Edit: Jan 11^th, 2008 at 7:20pm by deepthought »

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 39506 Gender:	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #7 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:30pm deepy, I'm in agreeance with ALP and freediver on this one. businesspeople have to operate within the laws, or they are criminals.
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Aussie Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 37678 Gender:	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #8 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:32pm What a wank. It is okay by DT that the Law punish pricks who break the Law......but 'business people' are to be above the Law, if jail is involved. HIH, anyone?
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deepthought

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #9 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:43pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:32pm:

What a wank.

It is okay by DT that the Law punish pricks who break the Law......but 'business people' are to be above the Law, if jail is involved.

HIH, anyone?

Nope. I am not suggesting that price fixing be legal. It is already illegal under the Trade Practices Act and is enforced by the ACCC. Visy anyone? It was worth $38 million to the taxpayer. Imprisoning someone would not net $38m. It would cost. Which nutter dreamed up a solution which costs the taxpayer money?

I am afraid it will be necessary to repeat myself. It is the punitive measures that Liebor propose that concern me.

Perhaps you too could read my post for the first time Aussie?

The law already has a punishment for price fixing. It's called a whacking great fine.

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deepthought Gold Member Offline In Defence Of Liberty Posts: 2869	Re: jail time for price fixers Reply #10 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:45pm Sprintcyclist wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:30pm: deepy, I'm in agreeance with ALP and freediver on this one. businesspeople have to operate within the laws, or they are criminals. Should they go to prison? Or lose the profits they made by price fixing?
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Aussie

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #11 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:56pm

deepthought wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:43pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:32pm:

What a wank.

It is okay by DT that the Law punish pricks who break the Law......but 'business people' are to be above the Law, if jail is involved.

HIH, anyone?

Nope. I am not suggesting that price fixing be legal. It is already illegal under the Trade Practices Act and is enforced by the ACCC. Visy anyone? It was worth $38 million to the taxpayer. Imprisoning someone would not net $38m. It would cost. Which nutter dreamed up a solution which costs the taxpayer money?

I am afraid it will be necessary to repeat myself. It is the punitive measures that Liebor propose that concern me.

Perhaps you too could read my post for the first time Aussie?

The law already has a punishment for price fixing. It's called a whacking great fine.

....and it seems, just like with breaches of ASIC legislation......(regulating the conduct of business people).......an imprisonment option will be included.

Who'd a thunk that DT would suggest that jailing Bondy, pursuing Scase, getting up those HIH cheats and jailing them was wrong?

Well, he did vote Lieberal!!!

How about the alleged AWB cheats, DT? Jail for them an appropriate option?

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freediver

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #12 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 9:01pm

Wasn't the visy bloke a mate of Howard's? Surely we wouldn't put a mate of the PM's behind bars....

The real value in punishment is it's deterrent. It's not about the money that Visy piad back, it's about all the other companies undermining our economy. A purely financial punishment will never be sufficient deterent for a crime that is almost impossible to detect and even harder to prove. Seeing punishment as a source of income to be maximised is absurd. You want to prevent the crime, not profit from it. If you profit from this, the crooks are profiting ten times as much, as the honest business people are paying the price.

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deepthought

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #13 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 9:07pm

Aussie wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:56pm:

deepthought wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:43pm:

Aussie wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 8:32pm:

What a wank.

It is okay by DT that the Law punish pricks who break the Law......but 'business people' are to be above the Law, if jail is involved.

HIH, anyone?

Nope. I am not suggesting that price fixing be legal. It is already illegal under the Trade Practices Act and is enforced by the ACCC. Visy anyone? It was worth $38 million to the taxpayer. Imprisoning someone would not net $38m. It would cost. Which nutter dreamed up a solution which costs the taxpayer money?

I am afraid it will be necessary to repeat myself. It is the punitive measures that Liebor propose that concern me.

Perhaps you too could read my post for the first time Aussie?

The law already has a punishment for price fixing. It's called a whacking great fine.

....and it seems, just like with breaches of ASIC legislation......(regulating the conduct of business people).......an imprisonment option will be included.

Who'd a thunk that DT would suggest that jailing Bondy, pursuing Scase, getting up those HIH cheats and jailing them was wrong?

Well, he did vote Lieberal!!!

How about the alleged AWB cheats, DT? Jail for them an appropriate option?

When the activity is a clear breach of the criminal code then prison should be an option. And even the Trade Practices Act has provision for application of the Criminal Code where relevant. But colluding on price fixing of cardboard boxes or toilet paper is hardly a reason to put someone behind bars.

I'm afraid in that regard I am Liberal. I believe in like for like. I do not believe in draconian legislation which will inevitably capture innocents, cause massive delays in the courts and push the price of upholding the law into new territory. Anyone recall Bondy, Skase et al?

I voted Liberal for a reason. I believe in liberal values.

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deepthought

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Re: jail time for price fixers
Reply #14 - Jan 11^th, 2008 at 9:09pm

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2008 at 9:01pm:

Wasn't the visy bloke a mate of Howard's? Surely we wouldn't put a mate of the PM's behind bars....

The real value in punishment is it's deterrent. It's not about the money that Visy piad back, it's about all the other companies undermining our economy. A purely financial punishment will never be sufficient deterent for a crime that is almost impossible to detect and even harder to prove. Seeing punishment as a source of income to be maximised is absurd. You want to prevent the crime, not profit from it. If you profit from this, the crooks are profiting ten times as much, as the honest business people are paying the price.

As there was no "provision in the Act for the jailing of anyone proven to have engaged in cartel behaviour" I'm not certain how anyone could have been jailed whether a mate of Johnny's or not.

And you believe prison is a deterrent do you? What are all those people doing inside?

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