Australian Politics Forum - How do we define unfaithful?

oceanz

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How do we define unfaithful?
Aug 21^st, 2007 at 4:36pm

Since the beginning of time and as long as relationships have existed, couples have had to contend with the question of infidelity.

Is the person who actually leaves the marital bed ,by having sexual intercourse with another ,a worse sinner than the person who deosnt actually leave the marital bed but nonetheless fantasises about another..even emotionally loving another.

Would the other partner feels more betrayed by the actual act of infidelity..sharing anothers body..or would that partner feel more betrayed to know the partner was no longer in love with them or emotionally connected...but actually in love with another but never acknowledged or consumated?

I know which I would be more hurt by.

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« Last Edit: Aug 21^st, 2007 at 4:47pm by oceanz »

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #1 - Aug 21^st, 2007 at 10:39pm

Are you aware over 10% of aussie babies born within a marriage are not to the husband, unknown to him.

There is no blame assigned to the women that happily go to bed with a married man of some other woman, or to the wife of that man who drives him into the arms of another woman.
He would much rather be at home with his wife.

I half expect this posting to get deleted for flaming too.
Don't expect me to post again here if it is.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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cautious connie Full Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 215	Re: How do we define unfaithful? Reply #2 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 9:50am I think this question is getting at assigning blame. Maybe that does not need to be done.
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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #3 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 11:20am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 21^st, 2007 at 10:39pm:

Are you aware over 10% of aussie babies born within a marriage are not to the husband, unknown to him.

There is no blame assigned to the women that happily go to bed with a married man of some other woman, or to the wife of that man who drives him into the arms of another woman.
He would much rather be at home with his wife.

I half expect this posting to get deleted for flaming too.
Don't expect me to post again here if it is.

Sprint i appreciate your genuine attempt at answering the topic...but what do you mean "no blame assigned to the woman or man who are driven into the arms of another" What if they man or woman, and I was careful to not mention a particular sex, because both are gulity of this, what ha[ppens if they fall in love with the partner outside the marriage..would it be a worse crime to physically consumate that feeling or not to and carry the love inside?

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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #4 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 11:21am

cautious connie wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 9:50am:

I think this question is getting at assigning blame. Maybe that does not need to be done.

This question is far more than that connie...sorry you cant see that.
I know what I mean..and you were nowhere close with your judgement I can assure you.

As a woman..I feel it would be worse if my partner fell in love with another, rather than having sex with another. I cherish my partners love...

We can have sex with another for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with love I believe.

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« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 11:30am by oceanz »

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #5 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 1:44pm

connie, maybe blame need not be laid. Could be investigated as to why it happened though ?

oceans - the piccie of a man removing his wedding ring was not - "and I was careful to not mention a particular sex, because " ???

If someone (a woman, for example) is so unloved within a marriage they go to someone else ( a man) to feel loved, it would not surprise me if they did fall in love.
Some of that responsibility belongs to the other person (husband) of the now defunct marriage.
Had he worked at the marriage, she would not have strayed.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #6 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 3:01pm

Quote:

oceans - the piccie of a man removing his wedding ring was not

Was just a pic to go with the topic and wasnt one the same depicting both.

Quote:

If someone (a woman, for example) is so unloved within a marriage they go to someone else ( a man) to feel loved, it would not surprise me if they did fall in love.
Some of that responsibility belongs to the other person (husband) of the now defunct marriage.
Had he worked at the marriage, she would not have strayed

.
Sprint hi..

So ok then..your line is that all parties take responsibility for theyre part in a relationship to make it work?

I agree btw..

So if the errent partner, the one who "caused" the partner to seek solace/love outside the union is indignant and self righteous and threateneing divorce..does she he have a right to be.? Should not a court take into account that this partner did nt uphold her responsibilty to love honour and obey-her/his partner?

What would the actual "scorned " partner be more upset about ..the emotional or physical.?

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41796 Gender:	Re: How do we define unfaithful? Reply #7 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 3:33pm courts do not consider any fault. the actual scorned partner is a manipulative selfish small hearted shallow person, they'll prob be upset by the fact the other one has loved and is loveable.
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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #8 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 5:26pm

Sprintcyclist wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 3:33pm:

courts do not consider any fault.

the actual scorned partner is a manipulative selfish small hearted shallow person, they'll prob be upset by the fact the other one has loved and is loveable.

Courts should consider fault, esp in this question, because it is a funadmental reason ties breakdown.

Quote:

the actual scorned partner is a manipulative selfish small hearted shallow person

I think this could be true in a lot of cases..but I think on the outside from societys point of vew...the scorned is seen as the victim, which then condones the victims sense of self righteiousness. For the worst thing that can happen in so called civilised society is for a partner to stray outside the bounds of marriage..regardless of the reason.

In this case the true victim would be the partner that has had his marital rights and concerns dismissed by his partner..amounting to marital abuse..with holding sex is a classic case of this marital abuse.

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cautious connie

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #9 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 5:47pm

I was not trying to offend you but I wonder what then is the point of the question if it is not to try to assign blame?

I think falling in love happens- it is hard to blame anyone for it. ut having sex requires physical acts driven by intention. So I guess the latter is least faithful because there is the most intent involved.

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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #10 - Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 8:09pm

cautious connie wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2007 at 5:47pm:

I was not trying to offend you but I wonder what then is the point of the question if it is not to try to assign blame?

I think falling in love happens- it is hard to blame anyone for it. ut having sex requires physical acts driven by intention. So I guess the latter is least faithful because there is the most intent involved.

You missed the whole point...so Im not surprised you dont see it.

Quote:

I was not trying to offend you

really?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53186 At my desk.	Re: How do we define unfaithful? Reply #11 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 9:09am Does falling in love really 'just happen.' Isn't the whole point of a marriage to have a public ceremony to let everyone know that these people are now 'off limits.' If you look around, you will find someone else to fall in love with. If you don't look, you won't.
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mantra

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #12 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 10:45am

I agree with Oceans, Sprintcyclist and Freediver - all the points are relevant.

Oceans - like you I would be very, very hurt if I found out my partner was in love with another woman, but staying with me because he believed he should. I would also be hurt if he left - that's if I still cared for him.

Freediver - you are right. If you get married - it should be a commitment by both parties to stay together, forget about feeding your ego somewhere else and work on what you have together.

I agree mainly with Sprintcyclist (again)- when two people are together, they should both work on making the other person happy and be sensitive enough to recognise unhappiness in their partner and do something about it.

This is where people give up - and as a consequence most marriages are a farce.

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oceanz

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #13 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 2:56pm

Quote:

This is where people give up - and as a consequence most marriages are a farce

.

I would agree, most marriages are a farce..

goes back to a thread I had up not long ago about why pple have to have the contract in the first place.

A contract should never be applied to matters of the heart and for those who say, marriage is for protection of the children I say if there is no mutual respect and love between partners they will not honour contracual agreements anyway, not in a way that will benefit children in the short meduim or long term.

If one partner feels restricted/trapped intially or after a while by a binding legal contract it tends to erode any love that may have first applied.

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mantra

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Re: How do we define unfaithful?
Reply #14 - Aug 23^rd, 2007 at 4:08pm

Quote:

If one partner feels restricted/trapped intially or after a while by a binding legal contract it tends to erode any love that may have first applied.

How true. Marriage takes maturity and long term commitment - how many of us these days have those qualities - one partner usually does. but often the other doesn't.

Is it a sign of the times? Our generation might be a bit cynical - but generation Y is even more so. Young people today seem to have no interest in committing themselves long term to a marriage - maybe they haven't seen too many good examples.

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