Australian Politics Forum - God is not responsible

skeptic

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #15 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:13pm

Ausnat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 2:56pm:

In high school history we were taught about the significant contribution that nationalism made to the initiation of both world wars. Religion never got a mention, nor should it have. I doubt Napolean was fighting for religious beliefs either. Lebensraum was not a religious belief, it was a belief that the interests of the German people were more important than those of their neighbours.

Thats correct Freediver. 3 wars of Nationalism over 130 years.

How many religious wars have been fought in the same time period FD? Cheesy

i would rather look at the level of casualties in those wars, rather than the number of wars that occured. i think we can agree that WW1 & WW2 had more casulaties than any other religious-based war that occured over the same time period.

besides, there were more than 3 nationalist wars over that period, mainly smaller ones when compared to the two world wars - e.g. Boer War, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53201 At my desk.	Re: God is not responsible Reply #16 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:16pm Why don't you list a few religious wars from that period AN?
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AusNat

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #17 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:22pm

Quote:

i would rather look at the level of casualties in those wars, rather than the number of wars that occured. i think we can agree that WW1 & WW2 had more casulaties than any other religious-based war that occured over the same time period.

Its a lot of people i agree. But the argument IS about the number of wars fought.
The two world wars were technological. Religious war is fought with small arms in comparison.
Only since israel became a warmonger did religious war step up to a larger scale.
I believe, that once (if) these ''holy wars'' finish the death toll will be higher than the two world wars combined.

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besides, there were more than 3 nationalist wars over that period, mainly smaller ones - e.g. Boer War, Korea, Vietnam, etc.

Yes the Boer war was a nationalist (small) war, but korea and vietnam were idealogical wars, capitalism vs communism.- side shows to the cold war.

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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: God is not responsible Reply #18 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:23pm freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:16pm: Why don't you list a few religious wars from that period AN? I didnt mean ''that period''(1807-1945) i meant 130 years outright, up till the present. Hang on a bit while i get a book.
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skeptic Full Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 188	Re: God is not responsible Reply #19 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:24pm Ausnat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:22pm: Yes the Boer war was a nationalist (small) war, but korea and vietnam were idealogical wars, capitalism vs communism.- side shows to the cold war. yep, idealogical wars - but they weren't religious wars (unless u consider communism & capitalism to be religions).
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AusNat

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #20 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:25pm

skeptic wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:24pm:

Ausnat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:22pm:

Yes the Boer war was a nationalist (small) war, but korea and vietnam were idealogical wars, capitalism vs communism.- side shows to the cold war.

yep, idealogical wars - but they weren't religious wars (unless u consider communism & capitalism to be religions).

No, they have a different category. Political idealogy.

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AusNat

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #21 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:37pm

freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:16pm:

Why don't you list a few religious wars from that period AN?

Ok, i have two here fought by european powers. ive no info on the rest of the world from this era.

Greek war of independence- Christians fought off the occupying muslim turks. 1821-22.

Crimean war - russia defending christians in southern russia against the turks. 1854-56.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53201 At my desk.	Re: God is not responsible Reply #22 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:38pm Nationalism is a strong factor in all wars. You cannot have a war without it. Religion is rarely a major factor. There have been far bigger wars faught between Arabs in the middle east since Israel was created that were not religious wars.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53201 At my desk.	Re: God is not responsible Reply #23 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:39pm Greek war of independence Doesn't sound like a religious war to me.
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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: God is not responsible Reply #24 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:39pm Give examples Freediver.
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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: God is not responsible Reply #25 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:40pm freediver wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:39pm: Greek war of independence Doesn't sound like a religious war to me. Yes it was.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53201 At my desk.	Re: God is not responsible Reply #26 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:41pm WWI. WWII. Vietnam. Afghanistan. Iraq. With the last three, American nationalism was a big factor.
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AusNat

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #27 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:54pm

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WWI.

Yes

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WWII.

Half a yes. Patriotic war against japan, Jewish war against Germany.
Ever seen the newspaper Headline from 1933 which says ''Judea declares war on Germany''.

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Vietnam.

Idealogical- this war was VERY UNPOPULAR on the home front.

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Afghanistan.

Yes and no. Yes because of 11/9 attacks and no because if America had nothing to do with israel, it NEVER would have happened....so does the entire U.S population have nationalist feelings towards israel? i think not.

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Iraq.

War requested by Israel.

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With the last three, American nationalism was a big factor.

Yeah American/Israeli Nationalism Grin

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« Last Edit: Jun 7^th, 2007 at 4:04pm by DILLIGAF »

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freediver

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Re: God is not responsible
Reply #28 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 4:30pm

Drop the absurd conspiracy. Most Americans or not zionists. They would think America is better and deserves to screw with the middle east as payback for 9/11 regardless of whether Israel existed. True, the existence of Israel is also a major factor in these conflicts, more so on the Arab side, but that is the existence of the country, not the existence of the jewish religion. While the Arabs may opress local jews, they have generally tolerated their presence. They do not tolerate the existence of a country ruled by them. This is more a 'pan Arab nationalism' than religious intolerance. If America set up a secular satellite state in the middle east they would be just as upset. They don't even like the idea of America setting up a Muslim democratic state.

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AusNat Ex Member Gender:	Re: God is not responsible Reply #29 - Jun 7^th, 2007 at 4:41pm C'mon FD, the Jews run the American government. That is why the U.S is so tightly bound to Israel. The common American is not a zionist. Where did i say they were?
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