Australian Politics Forum - Sustainability Party of Australia

freediver

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #60 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 3:12pm

Not that either. I don't like the term 'build' applied to the economy. That's what the communists tried to do. I think manage is a better term. While the economy isn't causing any problems let it take care of itself, but where it risks becoming self destructive or fails in some way intervene for the good of society. Of course, all the major parties would support this principle. It's the details they differ on. Also, when it comes to interference government should meddle at little as is possible to achieve their goal. This is the idea behind the green tax shift as an alternative to crabon trading or 'grand' schemes.

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enviro Senior Member Offline Taking Out The Trash Posts: 323 Weethalle NSW Gender:	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #61 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 3:51pm You have to build something before you can manage it.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #62 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 4:04pm Government has no role in the building of the economy, only in managing it.
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deepthought

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #63 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 4:10pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2007 at 2:37pm:

But if you don't then build an economy (trade, industry etc) to suppport it eventually the resources will run out

The economy is to a large extent inevitable, wich is why I used the term evolve. It's the political structure that is built in the sense that it involves conscious decisions about what should be done by the other people. The economy does not guarantee that the resources will run out. The more organised it is, the more likely that the resources will be overexploited. It is the political structure that prevents the resources from being overexploited. I suspect you are confusing the economy with the well the established principles that support it like private ownership.

No one thinks a tree is more important than a family

Where did anyone suggest that?

Maybe not here but it's what makes environmentally obsessed parties loony.

I completely agree with the concept of sustainable environments. But I simply can not accept that economies just happen and we look after the stuff in the ground first. It really is secondary to survival - like it or not.

I think you're courageous, but if I was interested in any kind of new party it would have to face the realities that concern Australians.

Tax, wages, housing, food, immigration, health, education blah blah blah. A fully fledged economy. Trees can wait until the balance is right. And of course now you are up against the best team Australia has had at fine tuning a massively changing economy in a massively changing technological age - the current coalition. You are really up against it.

To be different you really have to be different or you sound like the ALP - a wannabe coalition with a global warming obsession. Now look at One Nation. THAT was different, and that exploded out of the gates.

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freediver

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #64 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 4:18pm

I simply can not accept that economies just happen and we look after the stuff in the ground first. It really is secondary to survival - like it or not.

Economies do just happen. It starts with primitive people bartering goods. From this historical erspective we do not look after what is in the ground first. It only becomes necessary to consciously look after the environment when population goes up. When I talk about putting the environment first, I do not mean from a historical perspective, as we are given the environment for free from that perspective.

The core policy of the party would reduce taxes and increase wages. Many of the coalitions policies increase taxes and decrease wages for very little benefit.

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enviro

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #65 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 5:00pm

freediver wrote on Apr 25^th, 2007 at 4:18pm:

[i]
The core policy of the party would reduce taxes and increase wages. Many of the coalitions policies increase taxes and decrease wages for very little benefit.

This is fine so long as spending doesn't stop or less taxes will go through the coffers.

Here's a question freediver. If we have higher wages making us more comfortable than what we are wouldn't our personal production rate reduce due to laziness? If this was the case our work rate within companies would also reduce giving a reduction of global production.

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freediver

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #66 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 5:06pm

If we have higher wages making us more comfortable than what we are wouldn't our personal production rate reduce due to laziness?

That is already happening to some extent. It's no reason to make us poor. Luckily, many people seem to be fuelled by greed, which knows no limits.

If this was the case our work rate within companies would also reduce giving a reduction of global production.

There are plenty of dirt poor people left who are willing to work for almost nothing.

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enviro

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #67 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 5:58pm

I wrote Quote:

If a manufacturing plant started in my town, Brewarrina, It would be able to take advantage of backloading rates to Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide and possibly Perth.

Freediver stated Quote:

If you think that is such a great idea, go ahead and do it and you will make your fortune. You don't need the government to subsidise it. If that is what it takes, it means it isn't such a good idea.

Employment is the problem.

Many people is nowhere near the majority. I have done substantial research in this area and I will tell you that the majority just wants to get their wage and go home. They don't have the ambition. Just look at what the housing commision figures were ten years ago.

If a manufacturing plant started in my town, Brewarrina, It would be able to take advantage of backloading rates to Brisbane, Melbourne, Adelaide and possibly Perth.

freediver stated Quote:

There are plenty of dirt poor people left who are willing to work for almost nothing.

You should have been a slave master. Keeping in mind we only have around 4% of unemployed and most of these don't speak english fluently enough to get by.

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« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:34pm by enviro »

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #68 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:01pm I meant globally. I was responding to a comment in which you used that term. Many people is nowhere near the majority. What is this in response to? Just look at what the housing commision figures were ten years ago. What do the housing commission figures indicate to you?
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enviro Senior Member Offline Taking Out The Trash Posts: 323 Weethalle NSW Gender:	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #69 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:28pm Your website is not working it is missing a lot of detail that I post. I won't write it again.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #70 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:30pm I usually put it together in notepade - much simpler. Then I add the italics after I paste into here. I've nver had it delete bits of my posts. Sometimes it doens't put the italics where I want it.
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enviro Senior Member Offline Taking Out The Trash Posts: 323 Weethalle NSW Gender:	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #71 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:37pm I have been recieving messages every time I post about allowing my clipboard to go along. I say no. This is either because I have recently upgraded my IE to IE7 or you are asking for our private information which is still on our clipboard. Please let me know.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50550 At my desk.	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #72 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 6:43pm It is to do with IE7: http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1165368968
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enviro

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #73 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 7:22pm

Thanks freediver you have atleast put my paranioa at ease. IE7 has a lot of weird stuff hapening so I will have to get use to it.

I'm tired of debating and will now go to sleep. I thought Aussie Nat, Donald Trump, Auzgurl(Oceans_Blue), zoso or even sprintcyclist would have got involved by now. Atleast deepthought and Scally put their input up there.

There is many things that you mentioned which I could debate but I'll let someone else do that.

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enviro Senior Member Offline Taking Out The Trash Posts: 323 Weethalle NSW Gender:	Re: Sustainability Party of Australia Reply #74 - Apr 25^th, 2007 at 7:25pm Apolpogies SprintCyclist did and his simple philosophy is always welcolm. Sprint: God Bless you and sleep well.
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