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Sustainability Party of Australia (Read 50616 times)
freediver
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Sustainability Party of Australia
Apr 22nd, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
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« Last Edit: Dec 25th, 2007 at 8:41pm by freediver »  

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #1 - Apr 22nd, 2007 at 7:11pm
 
noble idea, all i can say is dont give up cuz its really hard, it takes a long time for anything to happen.
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #2 - Apr 22nd, 2007 at 8:00pm
 
Kangaroo farming and breeding programs should be looked into. Kangaroos are a menace to farmers and I think we should treat them like cattle and sheep. They were a food source for indigenous people there is no reasons why they can't be a food source for us all.

I'm sure Canada chops a maple tree or two down.
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #3 - Apr 22nd, 2007 at 10:23pm
 
I'm in.

On some of your ideas anyway. The other ones we can discuss.  Smiley
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #4 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 9:09am
 
Sprint could you please PM me your email address. The first thing I need to do is start an email list of everyone who is interested.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #5 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 12:09pm
 
The problem I foresee with this is that your answer to everything is TAX. Making everybody accountable via their pockets will only build corruption. A socially aware program would have a better effect but, this is just my opinion.

I see that SprintCyclist is quick to jump on board but you are missing many factors like the effect of your policies on inflation and interest rates.

I understand that if your not wealthy you don't want the wealthy to get any wealthier. That's called jeolousy. I personally support a flat tax right accross the board like GST (being an advocate of equal rights). This way incentives to grow are not restricted. The problem is that the wealthy need to put back into society, at their own choice, what they take out. Maybe if you said that they will have an extra 10% tax on them if they don't show 10% of their profits going back into society via education, health, employment etc. (just an idea). This way they can feel good about paying money out because they have a choice of where it is going.

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #6 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 12:20pm
 
It is not an answer to everything, only a select set of problems, though it is a set which is becoming more important. It will not lead to corruption any more than arbitrary taxation does.

I want to avoid changes like a flat tax that are considered 'regressive.' That is, changes that increase the wealth gap between rich and poor (or that do the opposite). That turns it into a strongly partisan issue which would divide a lot of potential supporters. I am trying to stick to issues that traditional supporters of both major parties and both sides of politics can see the benefit of.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #7 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 12:38pm
 
But how are the wealthy going to see benefits to a higher tax for themselves when, as you stated previously, 99% are wealthy? Grin
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #8 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 12:58pm
 
The idea is to keep it neutral, so that neither the wealthy nor the poor face an increased overall/average tax burden. It is a change in what is taxed, not a change in who is taxed.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #9 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 1:19pm
 
You state;

Tax reductions will be targeted at low income earners in order to avoid regressive shifts in the tax burden (ie shifts that increase the wealth gap by benefiting the wealthy more than the poor).

This means the wealthy are paying more tax. Considering the true wealthy are only a small percentage in the high bracket of income tax, what detrimental effect will lowering of taxes to the majority have? Obviously the government needs to get money from somewhere to pay for our services? maybe you plan to tax businesses higher to compensate?

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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #10 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 1:24pm
 
No, it does not mean the wealthy are paying more tax. Shifting the tax burden from income to greenhouse emissions would increase the tax burden on the poor, unless the income tax reductions were targetted at the poor. If you increase the tax free threshhold it targets the tax reduction at the poor, but the rich also pay less income tax.

Obviously the government needs to get money from somewhere to pay for our services? maybe you plan to tax businesses higher to compensate?

I plan to tax greenhouse emissions.
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #11 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 3:05pm
 
Please explain how shifting the tax burden from income to greenhouse emmissions would increase the tax burden on the poor?

By taxing greenhouse emmissions just adds another cost to business. Businesses who exist in an industry which is competitive on price will have to find other means to cut costs. Keeping in mind that production and increasing production is what businesses are all about and your concept would decrease production due to having an extra tax thrown at them. This would see a businesses closing, businesses relocating overseas and increase of unemployment.

Most of the wealthy are wealthy because they own successful businesses, or atleast own shares in successful businesses. I feel that what you suggest would only cripple our industries.

Your proposal to put the burden on business's wont help you get business backing. Most parties of today would be nowhere if they didn't have the financial backing of business.

A greenhouse emmissions tax needs to be offset, not in income tax but in other taxes that business pays like corporate tax. Then you will recieve applaud from the business district and it won't stifle growth, in fact it will do the opposite and create business wealth, by way of business saving programs,  not individual wealth (more incentive to keep the money in the business for savings instead of paying directors/owners an unneeded high income to escape corporate tax).

I have used corporate tax but I may actually mean company tax, I cannot remember exactly what it's called but I'm sure you will get the gist of what I am talking about.

You need to ask yourself, what is more important, a few extra dollars in peoples pocket or job security?
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #12 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 3:33pm
 
Please explain how shifting the tax burden from income to greenhouse emmissions would increase the tax burden on the poor?

It's like a switch from income tax to GST. It would tend to tax everyone at closer to the same rate than income tax, where the rate increases with income.

By taxing greenhouse emmissions just adds another cost to business. Businesses who exist in an industry which is competitive on price will have to find other means to cut costs. Keeping in mind that production and increasing production is what businesses are all about and your concept would decrease production due to having an extra tax thrown at them. This would see a businesses closing, businesses relocating overseas and increase of unemployment.

Businesses would lower wages where necessary:

http://www.ozpolitic.com/green-tax-shift/green-tax-shift-FAQ.html#Q2

Offsetting it with a reduction in company tax could be reasonable, but the income tax reduction for low income earners would be more netural in terms of the distribution of the tax burden between rich and poor. The reason is that an emissions tax is effectively a consumption tax, whereas the company tax is a tax on profit. Company taxes are not passed on to the consumer. Emissions taxes are. Company taxes reduce the return on investment for the company's investors. They cannot pass this cost on because that would make them uncompetitive. An emissions tax will be passed on. For example, if you tax petrol, it makes no difference whether you charge the tax to the fuel company or the end consumer, the end consumer pays the higher price.

Another problem is that there is a lot of interaction between company tax and income tax. If some tax has already been charged on profits, investors can count that towards the income tax which they pay on profits. If you reduce company tax, the investors just have to pay tax when they register the profit as income. I think the only people who escape this are foreigners. You would be giving them a tax break. You may end up effectively subsidising foreign owned businesses.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #13 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 3:39pm
 
Keep in mind that the goal is to reduce some economic activities. Some sectors of the economy will shrink slightly (coal fired power stations, petrol from fossil fuels). Other sectors will grow.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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Re: Sustainability Party of Australia
Reply #14 - Apr 23rd, 2007 at 4:19pm
 
The first home buyers grant is another handout that should go:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Not-all-first-homeowners-need-grant/2007/04/23/1177180548064.html

Releasing its plan to make the housing market fairer, National Shelter said the grant was working against low income households by artificially pushing up house prices.

"The first homeowners' grant provides valued assistance to many younger households struggling to get a foothold in the housing market," the paper says.

"However, because it is not means tested, it also subsidises many people who don't need it, and many believe it has an overall inflationary effect on the housing market, which ultimately makes it self-defeating."

Looks like the coalition is gearing up for more handouts this election:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Govt-cashed-up-for-election-promises/2007/04/23/1177180515111.html

The federal government has an additional $2.3 billion available for pre-election promises on top of an estimated $12 billion surplus from this year's budget.

The extra funding exists in government discretionary spending programs, which have yet to be revealed, Fairfax newspapers report.
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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man - George Bernard Shaw
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