bobbythefap1 wrote on May 28^th, 2012 at 10:09am:


I dont even get what hes saying . . . .

SOB

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:57am:



A republic isn't something that's offered to you, it's something that you choose for yourselves.  It's also a specific form of government, not some random word you append to your country's name.

Chard wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 10:15am:


It has been previously mentioned, although only as a postscript to the main discussion of "Monarchy vs Republic"
on what social mechanism/event that will provoke a similar response from the public in Oz like in France/USA/Russia/Germany.

Unfortunately the social hierachy is totally polluted with coat-tail diplomacy (Oz rides both US and English coat-tails) with a generous amount of forelock tugging/voluntary buggery going on with English aristocratic connections interfering/coercing domestic Oz politics through mainstream media.

For example - a few years ago a cargo ship hit trouble off an remote, largely isolated park with pristine natural features that rival many of the more well known National Parks here in Brisbane, QLD.

Swire shipping - a company with vast agricultural, tourist and other interests in Oz - largely ignored the overwhelming public outcry over the polluting of Moreton Is, pleading not guilty in the courts to charges resulting from a investigation by local maritime authorities, refusede to cough up money to clean-up te mess, refused to mobilise it's own reclamation company services in the clean-up, argued for minimal fines when found guilty through the courts, and now I don't believe it has paid one cent still in recovery costs associated with the clean-up and remiediation of Moreton Island.

Swire Shipping is a Bristish Co. It is also a financial supporter of political parties in QLD. It consistently lied to the public with regards to the amount and type of contaminates that were spilled. The government never challenged them on this, nor did they level any charges against the company for misleading the goverment - which consequently led to a delayed response to the pollution incident and hence a wider impact on the pristine ecology of the eastern side of Moreton Bay.

Mainstream media along with ABC did their best to bring this corporation to account however the goverment simply restricted access to information on the incident and thereby squashed the general public information flow.

In other instances, repeated occasions of industrial and chemical pollutants leaching from evap ponds of mining corporations  upstream of wetland fauna and flora reserves in Western Queensland and north western NSW, due to various negligent engineering practices allowed because of previously alluded to causes.

All in all there seems to be very little that impells an Ozun to understand that there is good reason to pursue the establishment of a republic. Personally however not much of this really bothers me as I don't really hold much faith in the idea of land ownership; leasehold yes, ownership, no - I'm not even really all that enarmoured with the idea a Republic is all it's cracked up to be if France or the USA is held up as example of how truly wonderful an institution it is supposed to be.

It's time to move on from those anachromistic forms of centralised power structures - I think a more eglitarian form of community based consultative forums, formed annually through Hare-Clarke electoral reforms. Switzerland has more a feel of how I like the a government should operate for the benefit of it's citizens rather than how the present ruling power bloc's made up of religions/political parties/anational corporate empires and the industrial military juggernauts which enact a rape and pillage mentality in pursuing it's own agenda of profit margin and economic growth at any cost.......

No doubt a change will occur when some aggravating event shoves Ozuns into a state of awareness hitherto unexperienced. That of course means waiting for events to transpire to reveal the true nature of the beast - monarchy that is. Until then it seems that most Ozuns are simply are happy enough to accept what is meagerly handed out to them.

I've often wondered why more Ozuns don't simply associate themselves more with the indigineous peoples and claim birthright over the country thereby providing substantial reasons for expecting a much better deal -akin to what the indigineous demand - thereby relieving themselves of having to purchase what most Ozuns spend their life working to pay for - A piece of land. But no, most take the viewpoint that this IS CROWN  LAND - and mentally submit to the rationale' - thereby accepting the proviso that to "own a piece of OZ you have to work for most of your life before you can "own" it. Of course as a lot of country landowners can now attest, as it is the CROWN you have purchased your Title from you have restrictions placed upon your Deed which prevent you from claiming any of the wealth that comes from mining, the air above your property. In fact the  CROWN even has the Right to resume your property and pay you what it thinks is fit.

There are I imagine many types and varying degrees of republic governments, however for my own I would prefer to see a Bill of Rights established first. A manifesto that determines explictly what rights a human has in this country. A document that enshrines without exception equal rights to ALL individuals the same treatment, rights and responsibilites as their fellow citizen. Once that is established - then talk about whether a republic is a better form of government or not. A BoR totally defrocks a monarchy - a monarchy CANNOT legally exist in a country where all it's citizens have equal rights. For a monarchy to exist there must exist classes within the society. Enact a BoR's - extinguish the rule of monarchy in Oz. All people are equal. Simple.

Next ensure a citizen under the BoR has rights that ALWAYS supercedes any legislation written to protect NON-human entities ie coporatons and companies. Governments, their corporations, private corporations and other utilities could then no longer simply resume or confiscate a citizens land or property at the drop of the hat. Simple.

EOR - apologies for the typos and he cryptic style

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 9:57am:


LOL

And you recon i'm a dick.



Perhaps people are too dumb to understand what it all means?

Chard wrote on May 29^th, 2012 at 1:50pm:


I'll do better - I'll make it simple. Your square won't fit in my triangle. The idea of a republic is dead. It doesn't exist in any true from anywhere. I doubt it ever will - still awake this time??

Oh and who said just because you ask s certain question it means I have to give you the answer You want???? Theres no fun in that mate

Oh - and guys - Her Maj is a titular head - not a real one, and her powers are extremely limited - to simply delaying any signing of legislation in Britain for a limited time.

Here in Oz our past pollies have ensured that any possible powers Her Maj may have to intervene to protect her people have been removed.  when we are oppressed by the Ausnazi Party, we cannot expect Her Maj to mount a barbed steed and come riding to our rescue by striking down the legislative infidel.

We don't even have a right of appeal to the Crown over violence done to us by the State...don't get me on that one!

It is on that basis that I see no conflict between having a Queen/King and a republic - it's done elsewhere - and there are no real limitations on how a republic is set up, as long as it's on behalf of the people, has a Prez, and the people hold proper power at the election box, etc...

Ahr, aye - Ye Royal Republic of Australia (hear ye, hear ye)....announcing President Grappler I, Servant of the People, Defender of the Drinking Class, Responsible for All and To All but Master of None...(hear ye, hear ye) ....

Depends.
What sort of Republic?
Because that makes a big difference and is not something that should be only discussed after any vote as to whether we become one or not. Arguments that say as much are really arguments that we cast uninformed votes on whether we should have a republic in the vaguest, broadest terms when the application is to be very specific and narrow.
How would a President be selected/elected?
I would want a say, as in a vote.
Not a vote where options are limited as to who can stand but one that is open to anybody. If people want to use rhetoric like "we want the head of state to be one of us" then make it truly mean that. Most people who are pushing for a republic will tell you that this is dangerous and likely to be unstable. Funny how democracy can be such a dangerous ideal and a hotbed of instability if contrary to the interests of the major parties. The last time the nation had this conversation when politicians addressed the President question was in the vein of what method of selection election would be acceptable (my emphasis) to them. This misses the whole point as far as I am concerned. I want to vote, if I so choose, for a candidate that may be patently unacceptable to them. It is not for them to circumscribe my, and everyone else's, basic democratic rights as the very first step into a brand spanking new republic that has as it's fundamental argument of freedom from an evil foreign queen/monarchy. That is not a very good start at all but probably informative of what this new freedom will actually consist of.
I voted against it last time not because of any great fondness for the monarchy but because we would only get one chance and we should be happy with what we are creating and I wasn't.

W can't have a Political 'Individual' as a supreme empowerment. It conflicts with the USA President
...and there can be only 'one'.
This is proven by the fact that while the Governor-General serves the whim of the UK, the Prime Minister serves the whim of the USA. The UK serves the USA anyway.

Australian Politcs, at the most - is empowered by a Political Mass ...that is = We The People.
At its greatest - the Australian 'WOMEN' who raise great Australian families in the Politically correct way.
Just because you don't work in the ACT 'Shire' under Bag End (Capital Hill) - doesn't mean you haven't any 'Politcial' power.
On the contrary - 'WE THE PEOPLE' and we are the power. Not the Prime Minister (be it Labour or Liberal).
Whitlam defied the UK and got hammered.
Rudd would not conform to the USA and got replaced by someone who got a standing ovation in the White House.

...but WE THE PEOPLE are the political power here.
Hence regarding = Re-Public.


Also: the greater the mix of blood - the healthier/intelligent/etc the offspring.