Australian Politics Forum - Should Australia become a republic?

athiest

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #315 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:34am

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:12am:

Would you want someone like Tim Flannery in the role?

It's not the chance of getting someone appropriate in the role we need to consider, rather it is the risk of getting someone inappropriate.

Yea, fd is right, imagine getting someone like prince Charles as OUR head of state.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #316 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:36am Has prince Charles ever tried to tell the PM what to do?
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athiest Ex Member	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #317 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:43am freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:36am: Has prince Charles ever tried to tell the PM what to do? Who knows ?, maybe, unless you're Kevvy we don't know ,do we?
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #318 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:49am Would you want someone like Tim Flannery in the role?
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athiest Ex Member	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #319 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:02am freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 10:49am: Would you want someone like Tim Flannery in the role? Whats wrong with him? Would you want someone like Prince Charles? I would want someone who was elected by the people ,if Flannery got the nod,so be it.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #320 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:05am I was referring to helian's model, where the HOS is not elected by the people, but by a select group of 'eminent Australians' like Flannery, who are in turn chosen by the PM, who is also not directly elected.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #321 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:29am

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:05am:

I was referring to helian's model, where the HOS is not elected by the people, but by a select group of 'eminent Australians' like Flannery, who are in turn chosen by the PM, who is also not directly elected.

Firstly Tim Flannery is currently not an AC. Secondly recipients of the AC are not chosen by the PM. Thirdly 'eminent Australians' who receive the AC for outstanding service to Australia or humanity are undeniably eminent Australians.

Quote:

The Order of Australia is the pre-eminent way Australians recognise the achievements and service of their fellow citizens.

Nominations to the Order of Australia come directly from the community: either individuals or groups. Anyone can nominate a fellow Australian for an award.

Once a nomination has been submitted, the Australian Honours Secretariat at Government House in Canberra conducts further research and contacts referees.

The 19-member Council for the Order of Australia then considers the nominations. The Council makes its recommendations, independent of government, direct to the Governor-General.

Also, to imagine that powerful dynastic families like the Windsors (the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas) have no political influence is to misunderstand the reasons these aristocratic families survive at all.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51285 At my desk.	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #322 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:39am What is it about this question that is so hard to answer? Would you want someone like Tim Flannery in the role?
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #323 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:01pm

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 11:39am:

What is it about this question that is so hard to answer?

Would you want someone like Tim Flannery in the role?

Were he an AC of five years plus standing, then he would be eligible under the eminent Australians model and as such I would have no problem with his nomination for HOS. However, he is not an AC (let alone of five years standing), so would not be eligible under the model as proposed on this forum.

Why don't you find a controversial AC recipient of five years standing who has received the award for outstanding service to Australia or humanity.

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easel Gold Member Offline Posts: 3120	Re: Should Australia become a republic? Reply #324 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:25pm Isn't this climate change 'expert', Dr. Tim Flannery, a paleontologist? Perfect politician. Misleads us in to thinking because he has a doctorate, he is a knowledgeable expert in a field far removed from his expertise.
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athiest

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #325 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:33pm

easel wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:25pm:

Isn't this climate change 'expert', Dr. Tim Flannery, a paleontologist?

Perfect politician. Misleads us in to thinking because he has a doctorate, he is a knowledgeable expert in a field far removed from his expertise.

At least he has a doctorate in something, Piers Ackerman runs around spouting his lies and his only claim to fame is five assult charges against women and a fondness for booze and cocaine.

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easel

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #326 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:38pm

Why are we passing the buck?

Piers Ackerman is a political stooge, everyone knows that, who cares? All political stooges have dodgy backgrounds, otherwise their masters would have nothing to hold against them!

I'm going to go find someone with a doctorate in Fine Arts or something equally useless and get them on the climate change committee.

I mean, THEY HAVE A DOCTORATE RIGHT? Roll Eyes

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I am from a foreign government. This is not a joke. I am authorised to investigate state and federal bodies including ASIO.

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athiest

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #327 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:42pm

easel wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 12:38pm:

Why are we passing the buck?

Piers Ackerman is a political stooge, everyone knows that, who cares? All political stooges have dodgy backgrounds, otherwise their masters would have nothing to hold against them!

I'm going to go find someone with a doctorate in Fine Arts or something equally useless and get them on the climate change committee.

I mean, THEY HAVE A DOCTORATE RIGHT? Roll Eyes

I think the new NSW premier has one in Englsh literature, theres a start.

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freediver

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #328 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 4:26pm

Were he an AC of five years plus standing, then he would be eligible under the eminent Australians model and as such I would have no problem with his nomination for HOS. However, he is not an AC (let alone of five years standing), so would not be eligible under the model as proposed on this forum.

So you have no problem with implimenting a system that potentially allows people with strong partisan views to select a person for a constitutional role that demands impartiality, both in practice and in appearance? You have no problem with a system that allows people with no great intelligence or awareness of the constitutional role to select a person for that role? What about the greater potential for politics to interfere with the selection process and the reduced separation of powers?

Why don't you find a controversial AC recipient of five years standing who has received the award for outstanding service to Australia or humanity.

Tim Flannery was the first person I could think of. If the Australian of the year has no qualms about using his position to push a political agenda, I don't see why it would be hard to find and AC recipient who does the same. Are you seriously suggesting that it wouldn't happen? Why do you need an example to demonstrate the possibility? Surely you can anticipate the inevitable without me holding your hand and walking you through it.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Should Australia become a republic?
Reply #329 - Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 5:19pm

freediver wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2008 at 4:26pm:

Were he an AC of five years plus standing, then he would be eligible under the eminent Australians model and as such I would have no problem with his nomination for HOS. However, he is not an AC (let alone of five years standing), so would not be eligible under the model as proposed on this forum.

So you have no problem with implimenting a system that potentially allows people with strong partisan views to select a person for a constitutional role that demands impartiality, both in practice and in appearance? You have no problem with a system that allows people with no great intelligence or awareness of the constitutional role to select a person for that role? What about the greater potential for politics to interfere with the selection process and the reduced separation of powers?

The Sovereign Council (a body of, say, 11 or more members) would need to consider whether the presumptive HOS is controversial. Under the system of a Parliamentary Republic, it would be important for the HOS to remain non-partisan. This would be a significant factor in the determination process of the Sovereign Council's nomination of an appropriate presumptive HOS.

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Question: Should Australia become a republic?
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