ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 10:57am:

Iran’s promises count for nothing. Iran is quite happy to fund Bashar al-Assad in Syria, to back Hamas, and to launch terrorist attacks throughout the Middle East. It is eager to confront its Sunni rivals, most notably Saudi Arabia, by supporting their enemies. It is eager to annihilate Israel. Indeed now that the agreement seems in place, the Ayatollah says flat out that deal or no deal, “we will never stop supporting our friends in the region and the people of Palestine, Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Bahrain and Lebanon.”

Why then would anyone be surprised that Iran would be willing to make high-sounding promises that it has every intention to quickly break? Does anyone really agree with the President’s rosy view that Iran will reciprocate our respect with its respect? Putting our best foot forward makes sense with ordinary business deals where reputations count.It makes no sense when dealing with a Holmesian bad man who has no need or intention of reciprocating good will with good will.

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 11:52am:


They weren't just promising, pretty please, to honour JCPOA.

At this point it's clear you don't even know what that agreement actually was, because you don't care, you just want to defend Trump.

And you're doing a piss poor job as always.

Let me enlighten you.

The JCPOA was working. It severely restricted Iran's nuclear program and imposed the most intrusive inspection regime in history. Iran's obligations were clearly defined and verifiable and for several years, the IAEA repeatedly confirmed Iran's compliance.

It wasn't perfect, but it was infinitely better than nothing. And nothing is what we have now, thanks to Trump.

I won't make it too long because I know reading isn't your strong suit, but the restrictions put on Iran included:

Uranium Enrichment Restrictions
- Level of enrichment capped at 3.67% (well below weapons-grade, which is ~90%).
- Stockpile limit of 300kg of enriched uranium (enough for civilian energy use, not a bomb).
- No enrichment allowed at Fordow, a hardened underground facility. It was to be converted into a research centre.
- Only allowed to use first-generation IR-1 centrifuges, with strict limits on numbers (5,060 at Natanz).

Plutonium Pathway Blocked
- The Arak heavy-water reactor was redesigned (with international assistance) to prevent it from producing weapons-grade plutonium.
- Iran committed not to build any new heavy water reactors for 15 years.
- Iran had to ship out all spent fuel (potential plutonium source) from the reactor.

Unprecedented Inspections and Monitoring
- The IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) was given daily access to all declared nuclear facilities, including Natanz and Fordow.
- Continuous surveillance of centrifuge production sites and uranium mines.
- Implementation of the Additional Protocol, allowing snap inspections of undeclared sites if suspicious activity was detected.
- Use of remote monitoring, tamper-proof seals, and long-term data storage to ensure verification.

R&D Restrictions
- Iran could continue limited research and development on advanced centrifuges, but not deploy them for enrichment within the 10–15 year timeframe.
- All other advanced centrifuge models were to be dismantled or placed in monitored storage.

Verification and Enforcement Mechanisms
- "Snapback" sanctions clause: If Iran violated any part of the deal, UN sanctions could automatically snap back into place without needing consensus (crucially, this bypassed a Russian or Chinese veto).
- Dispute resolution mechanism: Any party could bring concerns to a joint commission, and unresolved disputes could lead to reinstated sanctions.

So what changed after Trump pulled the plug on the deal?

Iran initially stayed compliant for about a year but once the US reimposed sanctions in 2018 and Europe failed to offer protection, Iran began breaching limits step by step.

As of 2025, reports suggest Iran has enriched uranium well beyond the JCPOA limits, and may now have weapons breakout capability.

Hence the mess we find ourselves in now.

Traced directly back to Trump being triggered by a deal with Obama's signature on it.

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 12:18pm:

So you admit the actions the US took regarding Russia and Ukraine utterly undermined their credibility when it comes to honouring nuclear disarmament or non-proliferation agreements?

One thing Biden and Obama never did was fawn over Putin or treat Ukraine as a political pawn, thereby damaging allied cohesion while signalling weakness to Russia on the global stage and even attacking NATO. Biden and Obama never demanded half of Ukraine's mineral and oil resources in exchange for support, never blamed the war on Ukraine's President, lied about their elections, or tried to undermine their sovereignty while emboldening Russian aggression.

In stark contrast, Obama and Biden maintained a firm stance against Russian aggression, providing substantial military aid to Ukraine and backing their aspirations for NATO membership. Trump's current policies represent a dramatic departure from this approach, focusing on direct engagement with Russia.

And in doing that, Trump handed Putin every concession he wanted, at least with the saving grace of someone getting in Trump's ear and preventing him from lifting the sanctions despite talking about it repeatedly.  But what Putin got was slashing military aid to Ukraine to ruling out their NATO membership, yet still nothing has changed.

Art of the deal.

But that's beside the point, and it doesn't change the direct link between Iran's current nuclear status and Trump's reckless cancellation of the JCPOA.

Try another distraction Frannie, this one hasn't worked.

Karnal wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 12:47pm:

Iran? Tellembuggerem.

Iran has been urgently signalling that it seeks an end to hostilities and resumption of talks over its nuclear programs, sending messages to Israel and the US via Arab intermediaries, Middle Eastern and European officials said.

In the midst of a ferocious Israeli air campaign, Tehran has told Arab officials they would be open to returning to the negotiating table as long as the US doesn’t join the attack, the officials said.

They also passed messages to Israel saying it is in the interest of both sides to keep the violence contained.

But with Israeli warplanes able to fly freely over the capital and Iranian counterattacks inflicting minimal damage, Israeli leaders have little incentive to halt their assault before doing more to destroy Iran’s nuclear sites and further weaken the theocratic government’s hold on power.
Israeli strikes have killed key military leaders, including much of the top echelon of Iran’s air force, leaving Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei increasingly isolated. But the impact on nuclear facilities has been modest and analysts say it could take a long air war to get the results Israel wants.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said the attacks will continue until Iran’s nuclear program and ballistic missiles are destroyed, and he has shown no indication he is ready to stop. He has also said regime change isn’t a goal but could be a result given the Iranian leadership’s weakness.

BDCO: Bibi Doesn’t Chicken Out.

ProudKangaroo wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 1:23pm:



silly nonsense.

Iran is bombed because it cannot be allowed to have nukes. Why does Iran want nukes? To destroy Israel.

Why did Trump and the JCPOA? Because it gave too much leeway and too much economic largess to Iran.

Iran is an enemy of the US and the West, not a friend whose grievances we need to accommodate.
https://www.dfat.gov.au/international-relations/security/sanctions/sanctions-reg...


You bozos - you, gweggy, Bbwiyawn and your ilk - twist and misrepresent what other people post or say and then declare some sort of victory or time for white flags or 'admission' or some such jejune, primary-school level triumph.  Pathetic,  retarded childish idiocy.

Frank wrote on Jun 17^th, 2025 at 11:52am:



Unlike Americas right?