‘Shocked’: Dentists advertise superannuation raids as early withdrawals spike

New Daily
May 16, 2024,


Millions more are being withdrawn for dental work as doctors push it as a service.   



Australians are being warned about the dangers of raiding their superannuation as tax office data shows a surge in people using retirement savings for dental work. 

Approved super withdrawals for dental work have spiked by more than $250 million between 2018 and 2023 – rising by 83 per cent in 2022-23 alone, according to government data reported by AAP.


The Dental Board of Australia is now worried about complaints that dentists are advertising early super withdrawals to clients, with the internet littered with inducements from clinics across the nation.

One firm even advertises helping Australians raid their retirement savings as a service and has partnership deals with dozens of dental clinics for procedures such as root canals, braces and implants.

Financial adviser Dawn Thomas said she was “baffled” by the online advertisements, which present myriad testimonials on web pages that don’t disclose key information about financial risks.

Thomas explained that financial advisers wouldn’t even be allowed to present super withdrawal to clients without telling them in detail the potential to lose tens of thousands in retirement and tax too.

“I’m shocked,” Thomas said of the ads.

“Are they giving financial advice?”



Avenues for accessing superannuation early have existed for years, but are tightly controlled by the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) and can only be granted under strict compassionate grounds.

That’s because it can have immense financial consequences, as demonstrated during Covid-19 when Australians collectively lost billions in potential savings after the Morrison government unlocked accounts before unveiling taxpayer income support.

Modelling by the Super Members Council (SMC) earlier this year estimated up to $85 billion in potential savings was lost from $38 billion in early super withdrawals under the scheme.

Thomas explained that withdrawing super early is damaging because of compound interest; whereby the money put in super savings grows larger over time thanks to funds reinvesting returns.

“If your money is invested in something for the long term, it doesn’t make sense [to take it out],” Thomas said.

“Present you might have a need, but future you also has needs too, and that’s what superannuation is for.”

Huge tax implications
There are also severe tax implications for accessing super early, with Thomas saying that Australians must fork over up to 22 per cent of the money they plan to withdraw in tax, which could be thousands.

“That’s a hefty amount of tax,” Thomas explained.

Thomas said there are legitimate reasons for early super withdrawal, particularly in cases where Australians face life-threatening medical emergencies or financial situations that could make them worse off if they couldn’t access their super early.

But the inappropriate use of compassionate grounds is likely to make it harder for these people, she said, because the government will respond by making it harder to access it.

The tax office manages that application process and the rules around the release of superannuation and has done so since July 2018.

“Accessing super on compassionate grounds is only available in limited circumstances where individuals are unable to pay for eligible expenses using other means,” a spokesman said.

“Accessing superannuation is not ‘free money’, as it will reduce the amount available in retirement.

“Accordingly, as with any major expense item, it is often useful to get a second opinion or quote.”

Why isn't dentistry included in Medicare?

I have top private health insurance, go to the dentist and periodontist twice a year, have 28 of my teeth, one with a crown. My gap payment is about $30-50 a pop on bills of $2-300 a visit.  I have no tattoos, I don't eat fast food, I do not gamble.

Look at people with bad teeth and they seem to have tats, eating shite food and know their way around poker machines.

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 3:41am:



they will destroy your financial ability to  take "personal responsibility ' for your teeth though

aquascoot wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 5:12am:


Funny you should say that.

I've just taken "personal responsibility" for my teeth by using my "financial ability" to withdraw another $3,000 from my superannuation pension to pay for the $400 check up and clean (with 2 X-rays) plus $2,500 for the removal of decay under the crown on one of my bottom teeth and having a new crown made and fitted.

I have a 'temporary' crown on there at the moment and the new, permanent one will be fitted this Thursday.

And this, plus the other super lump sum withdrawals I've made during the last 12 months also helps with my "financial ability" to ensure I get the age pension later this year after I turn 67 in August instead of living on my super until I reach 68 or beyond.

aquascoot wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 5:16am:


Blah blah blah blah... no one wants one of your word salads for breakfast today... or any other day for that matter. Thanks.

And, yes... it's way, way past the time for dental to be covered by Medicare.

If you have a health care card dental care is available for free in nsw and Qld ( don’t know about the other states and territories?).

So basically the idea put forward would achieve nothing other than reducing the amount already available for people doing it tough, increase taxes, and be subject to rorts  by dentists who will be delighted to buy another 3 holiday day houses!)

If you want to actually do something worthwhile that worked in the past and is extremely cheap to run, reintroduce dental education in primary school.

This was removed by liberal nsw government and labor Qld government.

A classic stupid decision.

Just as putting dental into Medicare is equally as stupid.

Ffs, you know?

Just brush your teeth properly if you know how!!

Putting teeth into Medicare and bulk billing!!

Over $4000 per year for dental was available through Medicare to those with a chronic disease or pensioners.

The Gillard government killed it in 2011.

Daves2017 wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 11:54am:


I have private health cover and pay for all of my dental/medical expenses.

I've never taken a cent from the government.

However, many are not as fortunate as I am and they should be given access to free or discounted dental care through Medicare.

And yes, I'm willing to pay more in taxes to fund it.

Denmark's comprehensive dental care system emphasizes strong preventive measures, leading to a low rate of oral disease over a lifetime.
Government initiatives promote dental education and regular check-ups, ensuring early intervention.
Denmark sets the standard in its comprehensive dental care system, prioritizing preventive measures to achieve and maintain minimal rates of oral diseases. Government initiatives actively promote oral health intelligence through education within communities and schools. These programs encourage and provide regular dental exams, with active preventive dentistry, while ensuring early intervention is accomplished when necessary.
Denmark initiated the Child Dental Health Care Act in 1972, which mandated municipalities to establish dental clinics. These clinics were tasked with offering essential and preventive dental services to children without any cost. Given the compulsory education system in Denmark, integrating free dental services within the school system proved to be an effective and streamlined approach.
The success of Denmark's approach is evident in its population's remarkable oral health, reflected in a DMFT index score of 0.4, showcasing the efficacy of their preventive strategies. The Danish Health Authority's dedication to oral health is a model for countries aspiring to establish successful and accessible dental care systems, highlighting the significance of education and early intervention.


2. Sweden
Sweden's public-private collaboration ensures widespread access to dental services.
Government-supported research initiatives drive continuous improvement in dental treatments.
Sweden's exemplary dental health system is driven by a unique blend of accessibility and patient-focused care, with an impressive 80 plus dentists per 100,000 citizens. With a commitment to preventive measures, the government invests significantly in public dental health programs, ensuring early detection and intervention.
Sweden's “Public Dental Service” (PDS or “Folktandvården”) is a significant contributor to its standing, offering nationwide oral healthcare. The PDS is financed through tax revenues and patient fees and is staffed by salaried personnel who serve urban communities and sparsely populated areas throughout the country.
Sweden ensures subsidies for citizens under 23, fostering a culture of oral care initiatives that have led to Swedish children having some of the lowest rates of oral disease.
Swedish dentists are also known for their advanced training and patient education, offering detailed insights into oral health practices for their patients. This holistic approach, combining accessibility, education, and patient empowerment, positions Sweden at the forefront of global dental health excellence.



So it is about encouraging and educating you while young so you will take good care of your teeth when you grow up. Not even in Scandi heaven is it all free for adults.

mothra wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 9:07am:



people are "victims" of tooth decay arent they mothra.

and as 'victims' they cant actually take any action, like , say  'clean their teeth"

greggerypeccary wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 1:03pm:


put that one on medicare and no others 

not a problem

people should always be supported by the taxpayer for things beyond their control

a kid with a brain tumour deserves the best free neurourgeon
a kid with polio deserves the best NDIS technology

a 200 kg sloppy pig does not deserve a set of $30,000 taxpayer funded new knees
a drug addict with a personality disorder does not deserve an NDIS package and a disability pension


with regards teeth

impacted wisdon teeth are deserving
meth mouth is not

I figured out some few years ago, ditching the extras from my private health… saving $1000 per annum.
Since I only used extras for spec savers once a year ($180 rebate) and twice for dentist, which I still payed out of pocket … plus the $1000 for extras on top… it was cheaper to just pay as I go.
So I paid $130 for new specs, $600 for dentist recently…. I’m still ahead by $270 in place of extras.
Didn’t need to go to dentist last year… so saved full amount.
But extras included ambulance cover so I pay $105 pa for that cover.
So I’m $170 ahead ….

Carl D wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 4:10pm:


well done , you say.

maybe the young people paying more tax to fund the pension of the entitled retirees might quit their jobs at the nursing home and go surfing

as you lie in a soiled bed and no one answers your buzzer, you can reflect on the "I'm alright jack" attitude of the entitled.

to the young i would say "well done for going surfing" , why waste your time helping the elderly when they are self interested dicks

Carl D wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 5:57pm:



So you are excusing yourself by pretending that you are diddling the pollies, not your fellow tax payers.

What IS it with people in Perth? The chips on your parochial shoulders are enormous.

Quote:

aquascoot wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 7:02pm:


He's applying for the pension.

How is that "diddling"?

greggerypeccary wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:


It would seem that people like aquascoot and Frank would like to see as many elderly people "drop off the perch" as possible - preferably before they are able to claim the age pension.

Something that our pollies apparently also want to happen when you look at how many elderly people are dying/have died in aged care from Covid and the fact that our governments don't care or even mention it these days.

aquascoot wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 5:22am:


So, if aquascoot doesn't want the elderly to die before they reach pension age then retire and access the age pension (currently 67 years, might be 70 or more eventually if the pollies get their way and they probably will) it looks like he wants to see them work until they drop (again, so they don't get the age pension).

I would have thought that after working and paying tax for nearly 50 years these "selfish takers and parasitic grubs" would be entitled to a quiet retirement and the age pension but maybe that's just me?

Mind you, with the rampant selfishness and greed in Australia today (just look at house prices and rents as a perfect example) I'm guessing there aren't too many people around these days who think like I do.

Anyway, we're getting more and more off topic here so I'll just say again that it's time dental was covered by Medicare and bulk billing.

greggerypeccary wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 7:04pm:


Still waiting for an answer on this.

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 2:10pm:


I wouldn't recommend that   

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 2:10pm:



There is a good argument for semi-compulsory dental reviews and care for children and teenagers until about age 18 or 20 or so. Including orthodontic care, with some means testing.

After the first two decades of life, however,  people should be able take care of their teeth.

John Smith wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 2:10pm:


At 14 years of age, I was fairly disciplined with my dental hygiene. But, I had inherited the gene in between for my mother's crooked teeth and my father's relatively straight teeth. I basically developed a type of crowded mouth that only improved as I grew. The left side of my teeth actually look quite alright -- probably as the result of being right handed and being able to brush that side more thoroughly. The right side looks like a rollercoaster rail twist. Second incisor behind the first/front incisor, with my canine tooth slightly inward, and my premolar following suit. One of my molars is actually alright, whilst the back one is jagged outwards.

Had I been able to get braces in my early teens, I would have been looking alright by the time I got out of high school, with some straight teeth. Dental work over the years has removed the broken and worthless back molars. My teeth look better. But I wish I could have something done to resort the right side of my teeth. But, yes, $9,000 is too much to have teeth fixed, unless the teeth are really bad.

Daves2017 wrote on May 20^th, 2024 at 9:38am:


I agree regarding Medicare covering dental.  It would cost a fortune and there would have to be limits because so much of dental work these days is cosmetic.  I can't see it happening though because doctors are abandoning Medicare and dentists would be much the same. 

Maybe the govt could make a co payment towards dental costs for pensioners.  Free dental is just that - you get what you pay for and if you're not paying you don't get anything in return.  I think for older people they have a fill or pull attitude to dentistry because they're not going to spend time and money on the elderly. 

But they definitely should be spending more on preventative dentistry for younger kids.  A school dental health service should be compulsory. 

However I wouldn't be too harsh about baby boomers and their teeth - they didn't always have the benefits of fluorided water. They never had dental floss until much later in their lives.  They didn't have access as young children to preventative dentistry.  Most people smoked back then and their diets were full of carbonated drinks and carbohydrates. Hopefully most people know better now.  Unfortunately many are now suffering from decreased saliva caused by medications and chronic health conditions.  Teeth like bones become more brittle.  If these people need treatment and cannot afford it, they will have to go on a waiting list and they will find that there are only two treatments - either fill or pull. 

But it's always been thus - back in the 70s I worked at the Dental Hospital in Admin. At the time, the professors were waging war against the govt because funding was so inadequate that young children whose teeth and mouths were grossly malformed and their appearance so horrifying due in many cases to genetic causes that they were too afraid to go out in public, were waiting years and years to have their conditions corrected.

Nothing seems to have changed.  There is never enough funding. 

greggerypeccary wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 4:56pm:


Yes, that would be helpful and would hopefully get more people to attend a dental surgery.  This could actually be done by dental therapists which would be a big cost saving.  Or maybe a dental hygienist if necessary.  And they would only need to be seen by a dentist if they had more serious conditions. 

greggerypeccary wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 4:39pm:



never use mouthwash

it destroys your micro biome

aquascoot wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 6:15pm:

Good one. My dentist advised against mouthwash for those reasons.

Baking soda is base - opposite of acid - so a baking soda toothpaste reduces the acidity in the mouth.

Picketers, rinse with water = pH neutral. Fluoride treatment.

aquascoot wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 6:15pm:


Okay, I looked into this.

He really has nothing to back up his claims.

Multiple Google searches suggest he's just a podcaster out to make money.

"Fake! He takes studies and blow them out of proportion. His academic credentials are often not in line with his topics. It’s like when chiropractors like to play the role of nutritionists. - You get the wrong impression that he is an authority. He is not! - He is cherry-picking studies or partial results from within a study and then hype the heck out of it."

I actually have an appointment with my dentist tomorrow, for a checkup, so I'm gonna ask him about mouthwashes.

UnSubRocky wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 7:07pm:


Ideally, yes.

But I said: "If at any time you don't have access to a toothbrush & paste".

For example, you get lucky at the pub and spend the night at a stranger's house.

You probably don't want to use their toothbrush, but you can quite safely use their dental floss and water.

Ideally, you brush twice a day.  I was just offering an alternative if a brush isn't available.

Frank wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 7:21pm:


Frank is, surprisingly, right.

If I could only choose one item from a) a toothbrush or b) a roll of dental floss, I'd choose b) the dental floss, in a heart beat.

Frank wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 2:55pm:


That'll work.

The old Soviet sattelites, now in the EU, have world standard dental and medical facilities, and skill at half price.

UnSubRocky wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 10:23pm:


FFS   

You'd bring nothing with you.

You'd borrow 300mm of dental floss from the bathroom cabinet and then rinse with the water from the tap.

It was just an example of what to do when no toothbrush is available.

Nobody goes to the pub with a bag containing a toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, and mouthwash.

I swear you're trolling at times   

greggerypeccary wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 10:28pm:




You said nothing about getting lucky in your first post about this. But, still... in this altered scenario, are you seriously believing that you need to be flossing your teeth after attending a pub, nightclub, cinema where you have hooked up with a date? How successful will your teeth cleaning be after having a pub meal and drinks. You might well be burping up your meal and drinks a few times after you return to your partner's place?

"Could you excuse me whilst I go to the toilet?"
*toilet flushing 3 minutes earlier and you are in the bathroom washing the blood out of your mouth from a serious flossing session*
"Honey, are you alright? You have been splashing water for a few minutes".

You might as well just "Omnomnomnom" each other without brushing or flossing. And if you are willing to do that, you might as well borrow their toothbrush and toothpaste for a quick once over.

Dentist are all ready buying up farms to subdivide into villa’s on the back this thread alone!

Let the rorts begin!!!


The investigation claims approximately 30% of Medicare's annual $28 billion budget is being wasted by Australia's doctors, based on estimates from lawyer and researcher Dr Margaret Faux which have been supported by former Professional Services Review (PSR) head Dr Tony Webber.

greggerypeccary wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 6:53pm:


Had my checkup yesterday - all good.

Asked my dentist about mouthwash.

His reply: "Don't believe everything you see on the internet".

I asked my dentist about mouthwash as well and he said don’t waste my money.

Brush properly and rinse properly with tap water is fine.

He explained he sees many people who believe just using mouthwash is a perfectly ok alternative to brushing your teeth.

We need bring back dental care education in schools.
I appreciate dentists will lobby against it as , it ruins their business!

Daves2017 wrote on May 23^rd, 2024 at 10:24pm:


From my own personal experience, dentists aren't out to create more business for themselves by objecting to education or preventative actions.

There's good and bad in every industry, but I've found dentists to be mainly good.

https://www.dentalfoundation.org.au/programs/my-school-dentist-program/

greggerypeccary wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 10:38am:


So? Our teeth fell out naturally between primary and high school years. They were replaced by our adult teeth that we had to look after. People who are illiterate or innumerate either have some mental condition that impedes their ability to add up and read/spell. Or they just did not try hard enough in their education.