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Should Jews apologise for killing Christ? (Read 6270 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #105 - May 26th, 2024 at 12:29pm
 
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.


Frank, there are people out there that would be part of a mass suicide cult, when a comet passes closely by the Earth. There are those who would accept money from terrorist organisations, go out and snort cocaine, and then board planes to crash into various buildings to inflict mass casualties. There are those people that blamed minorities for the failure of an earlier war, and would send those minorities to be slaves in concentration camps as a way to appease a majority of people.

There are all kinds of examples out there of people following bullshit examples of superstition and wildly inaccurate supposition that leads them to committing crazy things. I dare say that a few Christians, who have been around for generations, hundreds of years before Constantine made Christianity an official religion, would have had an impact on creating Christianity from scratch on a made up story about some narcissistic woodworker. The thing is, Christianity did not take off until after the founding of the Americas. Ask the average European, they are not very religious. Aske the average American, they are very religious.

You can imagine that there is an argument that the Americans descended from the first pilgrims were only there because their ancestors were kicked out of Europe for being too religious. Europeans did not generally believe that a Jewish person was endowed with supernatural abilities. And it is commonsense that if you have these supernatural abilities, then it would be difficult to get executed so easily.
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Jasin
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #106 - May 26th, 2024 at 12:55pm
 
Us Jews apologised in WW2.

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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #107 - May 26th, 2024 at 2:50pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 12:29pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.


Frank, there are people out there that would be part of a mass suicide cult, when a comet passes closely by the Earth. There are those who would accept money from terrorist organisations, go out and snort cocaine, and then board planes to crash into various buildings to inflict mass casualties. There are those people that blamed minorities for the failure of an earlier war, and would send those minorities to be slaves in concentration camps as a way to appease a majority of people.

There are all kinds of examples out there of people following bullshit examples of superstition and wildly inaccurate supposition that leads them to committing crazy things. I dare say that a few Christians, who have been around for generations, hundreds of years before Constantine made Christianity an official religion, would have had an impact on creating Christianity from scratch on a made up story about some narcissistic woodworker. The thing is, Christianity did not take off until after the founding of the Americas. Ask the average European, they are not very religious. Aske the average American, they are very religious.

You can imagine that there is an argument that the Americans descended from the first pilgrims were only there because their ancestors were kicked out of Europe for being too religious. Europeans did not generally believe that a Jewish person was endowed with supernatural abilities. And it is commonsense that if you have these supernatural abilities, then it would be difficult to get executed so easily.


MASSIVE historical ignorance there, rocky.
Bbwianesque proportion. TGD proportions.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #108 - May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm
 
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #109 - May 26th, 2024 at 3:50pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?


You obviously do not accept existing proofs accepted by hundreds of millions, so tell us, what kind of proof are you after?


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greggerypeccary
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #110 - May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm
 
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?


You obviously do not accept existing proofs accepted by hundreds of millions, so tell us, what kind of proof are you after?




Archaeological evidence?   Undecided

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Bobby.
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #111 - May 26th, 2024 at 4:12pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




You have a point -
why wasn't there not even a portrait of Jesus?

Why not 100s of them at different stages of his life?
It's a bit weird.

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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #112 - May 26th, 2024 at 4:30pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?


You obviously do not accept existing proofs accepted by hundreds of millions, so tell us, what kind of proof are you after?




Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




There is no achaelogical evidence for most historical figures from antiquity. Did they not exist?

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UnSubRocky
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #113 - May 26th, 2024 at 5:01pm
 
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
MASSIVE historical ignorance there, rocky.
Bbwianesque proportion. TGD proportions.


Frank, there is no record of a Jesus of Nazareth -- son of Joseph and Mary -- or whatever name was actually given to some people in Bethlehem in the year 4 BC to AD 4. You have no historical context to even make a claim of the person existing.

I would place your argument in the same context of people who believe Jack and Rose existed on the Titanic, simply because the Titanic existed.
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #114 - May 26th, 2024 at 6:08pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:01pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 2:50pm:
MASSIVE historical ignorance there, rocky.
Bbwianesque proportion. TGD proportions.


Frank, there is no record of a Jesus of Nazareth -- son of Joseph and Mary -- or whatever name was actually given to some people in Bethlehem in the year 4 BC to AD 4. You have no historical context to even make a claim of the person existing.

I would place your argument in the same context of people who believe Jack and Rose existed on the Titanic, simply because the Titanic existed.


There is abundant evidence.  There is no record of the census of anybody from that time even though there is a record of censuses.  So that they don tf appear on a l dagger is no argument - there is no extant ledger to appear on for anyone who lived at the time.

But we have a huge historical context, multiple, independent records discussing in mundane, non-mythological (this is important) detail his last few weeks of life.

I think you are muddled by the evidence for his divinity as distinct from his existence. You do not need to deny his existence in order to refuse his divinity. He obviously existed. Lots of people l e were writing about him independently from each other.

Was he god/son of/coexisting/etc - another matter.
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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #115 - May 26th, 2024 at 6:21pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 10:15pm:
Frank wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 8:10pm:
Jovial Monk wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 6:48pm:
ďJesus ChristĒ did not exist. If he existed it was over 1900 years before I was born.


You are an idiot.


No. There is no actual evidence that Jesus Christ ever existed. "Jesus Christ" is just another version of the Egyptian mythology character called "Horus". You would think that if the Romans put to death such a celebrity, they would have made such a big deal about the execution.



I went to see this exhibition. Too far from Rockhampton but you can still listen to the audio guide.
That Jesus had nothing to do with Horus is just too obvious and your making the "Oh, it's just.." gambit is ignorant to an embarrassing degree.


https://www.nma.gov.au/exhibitions/discovering-ancient-egypt/tour

Well worth a visit, study, reflection.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #116 - May 26th, 2024 at 9:43pm
 
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 4:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?


You obviously do not accept existing proofs accepted by hundreds of millions, so tell us, what kind of proof are you after?




Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




There is no achaelogical evidence for most historical figures from antiquity. Did they not exist?



To summarise:

The answer to my question "So you can prove he existed?", is 'no'.

Thank you for playing.

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greggerypeccary
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #117 - May 26th, 2024 at 9:44pm
 
Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 4:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




You have a point -
why wasn't there not even a portrait of Jesus?

Why not 100s of them at different stages of his life?
It's a bit weird.



Yes.

It's almost as if he didn't exist.

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Bobby.
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #118 - May 26th, 2024 at 9:54pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 9:44pm:
Bobby. wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 4:12pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




You have a point -
why wasn't there not even a portrait of Jesus?

Why not 100s of them at different stages of his life?
It's a bit weird.



Yes.

It's almost as if he didn't exist.




I know - a lot of it seems a bit silly.
What about Moses with his tablets?
They were made out of clay.

Why not make 100 tablets out of an isotope of some rare metal that is not found by itself in nature
in that pure form and distribute to places all over the world so that later technology from the 20th century
could detect that it was something that could only have come from God himself?

All we get are stories in old books.
It's enough to make armies of doubting Thomas's so I'm not surprised that
there are so many non-believers and I can't blame them.




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Frank
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Re: Should Jews apologise for killing Christ?
Reply #119 - May 27th, 2024 at 8:33am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 9:43pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 4:30pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:51pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:50pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 3:35pm:
Frank wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 9:06pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:28am:
Jesus Christ did NOT exist. There has been no verifiable evidence to show that there was a person who did all that was written in the Bible about Jesus.


The stories about Jesus are very particular, story-like. They are nothing like mythological fables at all. Too specific to be mere fabulations.
Also remember that his followers were severely persecuted for 300 years - you dont invent something and then get maryred for it, knowing that it was a mere invention. Nobody would die for Grimm's Fairy Tales or for the truth of Achilles, or even Plato or Aristotle.

You can say that Jesus was nothing special, although that would be pretty stupid considering his evident impact and effect on the world, but to say that he didn't even exist yet had a greater impact than anyone else is just idiotic in the extreme.



Ah.

So you can prove he existed?


You obviously do not accept existing proofs accepted by hundreds of millions, so tell us, what kind of proof are you after?




Archaeological evidence?† †Undecided




There is no achaelogical evidence for most historical figures from antiquity. Did they not exist?



To summarise:

The answer to my question "So you can prove he existed?", is 'no'.

Thank you for playing.


Not at all, dishonest turd.

There is lots of written evidence, you just do not accept any of it. The evidence you demand - archaeological, like his sandal, his shroud, wood from the true cross, the menu for the last supper, his birth and death certificate and all the rest of nonsense from the Book of Dan Brown -  doesn't exist for most figures of antiquity so you demand, probably knowingly, complete nonsense.

As for Bobby's idiotic request for hundreds of portraits - they do not exist even for Caiphas or Pilate, much more famous at the time. Jesus and his followers were Jews, so no graven images, anyway.


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