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This Aboriginal Disaster (Read 3923 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #75 - May 26th, 2024 at 6:45pm
 
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 6:14pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:58pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm:
Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise.


Well, that's correct;† but that's not anything to do with† why have "the poor old UN".

Quote:
Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?† 76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?† We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is.


I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.†

Quote:
Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide...


I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap.


You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?


Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic† disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity.


But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap.


Is there such a thing as personal responsibility in your conception of the way the human world is?


Yes, "my conception of the world" defines 'personal responsibility'† the same way as google does.†

Quote:
Or is EVERYONE is an automaton, subject to forces completely outside his control - responsibility?


No; everyone is a unique individual dealing with unique socio economic circumstances, SOME OF WHICH are outside the individual's† control† - eg the idiot Oz central-banker Bullock is deliberately trying to force some individuals onto the unemployment scrap heap (- exactly where she herself belongs...)


Quote:
Everyone, including you. So what IS controlling you? What IS making you say what you do say? What are the forces you are a helpless puppet to?


All answered above. For my part I avoid the junk consumer economy like the plague -† most fulfil their role as unaware, obediant little consumers  (lied to by self-interested, profit-seeking  junk advertising)  heading to sickness and an early death.†

Quote:
(Total ignorance and stupidity. Ed.)


Refuted above; you should wait for the reply before you make a gratuitous comment like that.†
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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #76 - May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 6:45pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 6:14pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 5:58pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 24th, 2024 at 7:04pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23rd, 2024 at 7:22pm:
Poor old UN - seems nobody wants to be governed and controlled by a majority of rat-infested, gutters overflowing with filth, mud hut, law of the jungle (yes - even your fabled ayatollahs etc), power-hungry, misogynistic, West-hating, chip on the shoulder, semi-educated at best cultural deficient countries .... no surprise.


Well, that's correct;† but that's not anything to do with† why have "the poor old UN".

Quote:
Now then - which Aboriginal disaster do you want to discuss today?† 76 out of 81 by 30.8% of the population of the Terr'Uh'Tree?† We all know that general figure will be evenly spread across Australia once the balls get rolling properly on DV and woman murders - what is amazing is that the NT Coroner actually had the ovaries to truth-tell it as it is.


I want the government to deal with ALL "aboriginal disasters" (as measured by the gap), as far as is possible.†

Quote:
Break it down by demographic, they said.... nah, nah, said the Black 'truth-tellers', that's 'racism' - clearly they had plenty to hide...


I agree denial of facts will not assist in closing the gap.


You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?


Yes, for graps it's all a matter of 'personal responsibility', he denies the reality of entrenched/systemic socio-economic† disadvantage which CAN be eradicated by the state; entrenched poverty is a political choice of the government, not an economic necessity.


But denial, or concealing the consequences of entrenched poverty eg high crime and DV rates, won't assist in closing the gap.


Is there such a thing as personal responsibility in your conception of the way the human world is?


Yes, "my conception of the world" defines 'personal responsibility'† the same way as google does.†

Quote:
Or is EVERYONE is an automaton, subject to forces completely outside his control - responsibility?


No; everyone is a unique individual dealing with unique socio economic circumstances, SOME OF WHICH are outside the individual's† control† - eg the idiot Oz central-banker Bullock is deliberately trying to force some individuals onto the unemployment scrap heap (- exactly where she herself belongs...)


Quote:
Everyone, including you. So what IS controlling you? What IS making you say what you do say? What are the forces you are a helpless puppet to?


All answered above. For my part I avoid the junk consumer economy like the plague -† most fulfil their role as unaware, obediant little consumers† (lied to by self-interested, profit-seeking† junk advertising)† heading to sickness and an early death.†

Quote:
(Total ignorance and stupidity. Ed.)


Refuted above; you should wait for the reply before you make a gratuitous comment like that.†

So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?

And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?

And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??

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SadKangaroo
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #77 - May 26th, 2024 at 7:17pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am:
SadKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am:
You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?


White flag accepted, champ.† I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know.

I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.† You need to stop smoking that stuff.† God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?† Twelve years old?

Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.† I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is?


You're advocating for segregation in 2024.

It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself.
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aquascoot
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #78 - May 26th, 2024 at 7:31pm
 
the gap is indeed widening and will continue to widen if the victim narrative continues.

the first principle in wise books from steven covey or ekhardt tolle or robert green STRESS the importance that you MUST give up all victim narratives if you are to move ahead.

the left oppress the aborigine by the subtle (not so subtle) racism of low expectations
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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #79 - May 26th, 2024 at 7:39pm
 
aquascoot wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:31pm:
the gap is indeed widening and will continue to widen if the victim narrative continues.

the first principle in wise books from steven covey or ekhardt tolle or robert green STRESS the importance that you MUST give up all victim narratives if you are to move ahead.

the left oppress the aborigine by the subtle (not so subtle) racism of low expectations

Class struggle = victim narrative = Marxism.

The victimhood wheeze is a very well developed apparatus of thinking, talking, perceiving etc. There is no relinquishing it because then identity is relinquished. Victimhood is not an add-on, it is the core.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #80 - May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm
 
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm:
So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?


Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents.

Quote:
And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?


Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background and hence choice. ("Give me the child and I will give you the man"....).†

In fact the junk consumer economy depends on people not making informed choices.

Quote:
And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??


Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.

Then there's the complicating matter of genes; Trump's brother drank himself to death because of an addiction to grog. Did he "choose" the addiction? You won't be able to answer that question definitively.†
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2024 at 12:23pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #81 - May 27th, 2024 at 12:23pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm:
So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?


Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents.

Quote:
And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?


Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background.

Quote:
And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??


Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.


So everything is completely out of everyone's hands because nobody choses his parents!† Cheesy Cheesy

And that is the foundation of your world view. Everything is an accident, some accidents are lucky, others not.

But even that judgement, the ability to make YOUR judgement, is entirely based on chance, on your parents, who in turn were entirely dependent on the luck or otherwise of their parents. It is all an gigantic game of chance, all judgements are based on random backgrounds. Nothing can be said to be better or worse because that very value judgement is the random product of family background. YOUR own views are nothing but the product of your background so they carry no weight. They are random, li k e everything else.

You are an idiot, according to my background.





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thegreatdivide
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #82 - May 27th, 2024 at 1:15pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 12:12pm:
Frank wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:13pm:
So... to what extent are YOU responsible for your life and to what extent are YOU a mere puppet of consumer economics?


Difficult to say, since I didn't choose my parents.

Quote:
And if you are avoiding consumer economics, how do YOU do it other than by taking personal responsibility for your own life?


Your error there: just because my family background taught me to take personal responsibility and avoid the junk-consumer economy doesn't mean everyone has that background.

Quote:
And if you can do it, why can't anyone else? What is special about you??


Answered above: I didn't choose my parents.


So everything is completely out of everyone's hands because nobody choses his parents!† Cheesy Cheesy


Correct, provided  you replace "everything" and "completely" with some things and "partially", respectively.  †

People like Bonner and Dodson have obviously exercized some 'personal responsibility' because a parent taught them.

Quote:
And that is the foundation of your world view. Everything is an accident, some accidents are lucky, others not.


Correct (though your use of the words "completely" and "everything" above† hints at your desperation to make your case)

We all know 'life isn't fair'....; the question is how to ameliorate this reality.

Quote:
But even that judgement, the ability to make YOUR judgement, is entirely based on chance, on your parents,


There's another absolutist† word ie "entirely"; I have my own gentic makeup which influences my own decisions, as well what I learned from my parents teachings and economic circumstances.

Quote:
who in turn were entirely dependent on the luck or otherwise of their parents.


You error there (again): replace "entirely dependent on" with "influenced by".†

Quote:
It is all an gigantic game of chance, all judgements are based on random backgrounds. Nothing can be said to be better or worse because that very value judgement is the random product of family background. YOUR own views are nothing but the product of your background so they carry no weight. They are random, li k e everything else.

You are an idiot, according to my background.


A confused mixture of ideas; the effect of chance (for all of us)† is one thing; value judgements are another thing altogether (eg collective versus individual wellbeing).† †

And the debate over (individual) freewill versus determinism is not closed.i
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« Last Edit: May 27th, 2024 at 1:20pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #83 - May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm
 
Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?


What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #84 - May 27th, 2024 at 3:14pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?


Nothing;† your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes.


Quote:
What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?


My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents.

You† are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life.†


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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #85 - May 27th, 2024 at 3:45pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 3:14pm:
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?


Nothing;† your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes.


Quote:
What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?


My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents.

You† are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life.†



You didn't choose your parents, so they were random FOR YOU. Being entirely a product of your random circumstances, nothing is your choice, not even your support for the CCP, MMT, nothing. You do not have any individual autonomy, agency, choice.

You are entirely conditioned by your background and things around that you have no power to alter since there is no 'you' only a subject of random outside influences, themselves nothing but effects of other random influences.

You are mere frog's leg, twitching reflexively to electric impulses.

An idiot, in a word.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #86 - May 29th, 2024 at 1:53pm
 
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 3:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 3:14pm:
Frank wrote on May 27th, 2024 at 2:36pm:
Well, what IS exempt from the random chance of "I didn't choose my parents"?


Nothing;† your error in logic arises because you think chance has NO effect on individual outcomes.


Quote:
What is exempt from 'everything" and "completely" if your views are subject to random backgrounds and parents?


My views (while growing up) were influenced by the views of MY parents, NOT random parents.

You† are confusing my hypothetical "choice of parents" with the actual parents I had in this life.†


You didn't choose your parents,


Correct.

Quote:
so they were random FOR YOU.


Incorrect: they begat me, they were my actual parents; nothing random about it.†

Quote:
Being entirely a product of your random circumstances,


Refuted above, you are arguing from a wrong premise.

Quote:
nothing is your choice, not even your support for the CCP, MMT, nothing. You do not have any individual autonomy, agency, choice.


..continuing your GIGO narrative: I can reason and make choices which began on the foundations of my parents' experiences, beliefs and circumstances.

...just like you, but of course your 'foundations' ( as posited above) are very different to† mine.

Quote:
You are entirely conditioned by your background and things around that you have no power to alter since there is no 'you' only a subject of random outside influences, themselves nothing but effects of other random influences.


There's your erroneous misplacement of the word "entirely" again, combined with your errors re randomness.

I can reason, beginning from  the unique circumstances of my birth.

Quote:
An idiot, in a word.


Again, you should have waited until I explained your errors for you.....

Hence you insist on claiming, for example, one of the drunk criminals in the Alice who is abusing his wife, has had exactly the same 'freedom'/opportunity† to prosper, as eg, Jacinta Price.

It's an inadequate ideology.


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Frank
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #87 - May 29th, 2024 at 3:01pm
 

You, very idiotically, argue against personal responsibility on the basis that you didn't choose your parents, your background or theirs, your circumstances or theirs.

So what  IS of your own making about you?  What falls outside your deterministic conception,outside your accidental, random parenthood, background, circumstances,? What is left to your own personal  - individual! - powers and choices and decisions?
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #88 - May 29th, 2024 at 3:02pm
 
I ask again - WHICH Aboriginal disaster will we start with?† Which one are we looking at now?† So many to choose from.... so little time....

Did me one of them vapid test things last night to see how 'independent' a person I was - I cut to the max as Independent ... sort of an Alpha Independent type...  I don't have bosses - I have underlings and servants ....
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller
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Re: This Aboriginal Disaster
Reply #89 - May 29th, 2024 at 3:19pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on May 26th, 2024 at 7:17pm:
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 8:18am:
SadKangaroo wrote on May 25th, 2024 at 7:55am:
You do realise you're talking with someone whose preference it is to widen the gap, not close it?


White flag accepted, champ.† I'm just going along with Michael Mansell and the idea of a Two State Solution.... it's a bi-partition issue, you know.

I have nothing to do with any gaps or opening or closing them.† You need to stop smoking that stuff.† God you fools grasp for some desperate things to try to make your claims.... what are you?† Twelve years old?

Which reminds me - the NT coroner has stated on the evidence that 76 out of 81 women killed in the Terr'Uh'Tree since 2000 were Aboriginal women.† I take it your silly pushing some clinically insane agenda is more important.... do you even know what your agenda is?


You're advocating for segregation in 2024.

It's not a white flag, there is simply no way to hold any rational discussion with someone such as yourself.


Not at all - I'm just agreeing with Michael Mansell - another white Aborigine - and that huge Tarneen sheila bloated on three Wharte Man jobs from Melbadishu, who are saying they should have an Aboriginal state where they can do their own things... I'm just happy to offer them a separate Two State (Three if you include Politico Island) solution, where on the one hand they can as per their demand 'do things their way' - and on the other we can do things our way.

No problem... no segregation about it since we would not be living in the same land .....they have their own and we have ours... and it's voluntary anyway unless and until one or them plays up too much - those who choose to remain Australians BE Australians (Ausraelis) - those who choose to be Abestinians choose to be Abestinians and responsible for themselves and their own outcomes.... those who act up in the traces and cause problems are shipped to Abestine and left to their 'elders' and local laws.... as is happening in some parts of Ausrael right now behind our backs..... and that doesn't even include the far outback places that nobody wants to visit anyway.....

You'll get there one day....

YOUR kind are the segregationists..... you are the Nazis .... you demand the segregation of separate but equal but only as long as your pets receive all benefits and more of our ways and get to swim in the sea of Wharte Man's benefits and civilisation while contributing nothing positive to that ...............I'm just the voice of reason in the middle of the range ....  Mansell of course envisages the very best seafront land for HIS idea of a state....

When was the last time you saw an Abo take out a franchise on a MacFries or similar and make something of self?

Ask yourself this - if the 'missions' and 'reservations' were such a disaster for them - why does Arnhem Land remain as a 'reservation'?†  A.  because THEY want it that way!!

Maybe I'll look at AL as Abestine etc... same crocs and such and right there ready to go  .... and Farencue could be retained for a Cape Canaveral of the future .... no need to pay royalties there then ....
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« Last Edit: May 29th, 2024 at 3:30pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »  

ďFacts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.Ē
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