Australian Politics Forum - The Aboriginal Voice referendum

MeisterEckhart

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4440 - May 24^th, 2024 at 10:54am

By 1788, all European imperial powers had had 300+ years of interaction with hunter-gatherer/nomadic cultures - from Africa, and Asia, to the Americas and the islands of the Pacific.

Aboriginal cultures, from the European perspective, would have been little different to many they had already encountered during the prior 300 years of exploration and colonisation.

By the 18th century, the notion that hunter-gatherer/nomadic peoples were 'godless' and 'merciless savages' practising inferior cultures was well entrenched in the European mindset, to the degree that even slavery of these peoples was a morally tolerable practice.

It's clear, however, that by the early 19th century, at least within the British mindset, this was beginning to change. The political ascendancy of abolitionist movements and the acceptance that native peoples had human rights - as evidenced by the recognition of NZ Maori peoples as having the same rights as those of European settlers - had set a new moral tone.

While in the US, although slavery persisted, treaties were sought with native American peoples, the same did not occur in Australia with Aboriginal peoples.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4441 - May 24^th, 2024 at 12:02pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on May 23^rd, 2024 at 10:56am:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 23^rd, 2024 at 10:44am:

Complex issue, as I said. What you cannot do is have two different sets of sovereignty over land etc claims competing with one another over every square inch... nor can you hand a disproportionate area of land etc over to a minority and create of them New Lords Of All They Survey and with the right to impose on all others.

No state is necessarily permanent. Will Australia exist as a single contiguous entity from coast to coast in, say, 200 years?

Why is multi-sovereignty not possible? That is exactly what was once proposed for the city of Jerusalem.

We're trying to cut the Gaga Strip and Victoria loose, float them out to sea.... WA is just a mining hole anyway ... the Terr'Uh'Tree is a crime hole where 76 out of 81 women killed - 49 times higher per capita of their demographic than all others there - is not worth having.

Multi-sovereignty totally controlled by small and diffuse racial (and racist) groups with no idea is never going to be a good idea. You must not confuse the two concepts. What if we were to have small and scattered groups of semi-educated, semi-literate, and inexperienced Pure Nordic Whites doing that?

I doubt more than 2% of the population would even consider such a thing. What about we make it small groups of yellow men? Let's make it Greeks or Italians or Arabs or something.... choose any group that you consider should totally own and control the country over all others.

The very problem with any 'voice' for Aborigines is that they are small groups - here and up the road they don't even talk to one another, and our lot despise them inlanders. Ancient enemies, you see... they used to kill one another.... what a great recipe for governing a series of small nations... be worse than 'liberated' South Africa.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4442 - May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4443 - May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4444 - May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4445 - May 25^th, 2024 at 9:08pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4446 - May 25^th, 2024 at 9:18pm

.... the more things change - the more they remain the same ...... and history repeats itself over and over ..... according to human nature .... which is the one inescapable foundation.......... you must be aware of what happened in the history of humankind to understand what is happening now..... and Aboriginalism is a backward series of endless steps to nowhere .....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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UnSubRocky

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4447 - May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

Us white Australians acknowledge history, whilst at the same time believing that those who were not involved in the problems of the past should not try to assume some victimhood appropriation.

Those people whose culture is incongruous with modern lifestyles should suffer the consequences of not being part of modern society. Sitting on a premise that your ancestors were here before white people is not going to let people feel sorry for that cultural minority. Either catch up to modern standards, or wallow in fourth world living conditions, as did your ancestors.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4448 - May 26^th, 2024 at 2:44pm

Three State Solution... Ausrael for the majority... Abestine for the Aborigines... Politico Island for the politicians and their tame 'public servants' to stay on while they live by the policies they put in place until they see the error of their ways.....

I say once their 'sitting days' in Canberra etc are finished for the year - they go to Politico and are paid dole money, and live by their own policies .... if they want Black Supremacism, they can live under a few Black guards and bosses... restrictions on where they can go etc ... closures of land areas ... if they want boss industrial relations, they work under a despotic boss.... let them eat it for a change...

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« Last Edit: May 26^th, 2024 at 3:00pm by Grappler Truth Teller Feller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4449 - May 26^th, 2024 at 5:25pm

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

Us white Australians acknowledge history, whilst at the same time believing that those who were not involved in the problems of the past should not try to assume some victimhood appropriation.

Correct, but "us white Austrlians" SHOULD ensure the present-day descendents of the losers of past (cultural and economic) conflicts are equipped to participate and prosper in the modern world.

Quote:

Those people whose culture is incongruous with modern lifestyles should suffer the consequences of not being part of modern society.

Verging into blame the victims of history ideology.

We smashed their culture, and if they insist on hanging onto it, we need to guarantee alternatives for them (housing and jobs) - as a guide showing the benefits of living in the modern world.

But you can't even 'guide' 1.5 million un- and underemployed white Australians ...some of whom are forced to sleep like the hunter-gatherers.

Deplorable.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4450 - May 26^th, 2024 at 5:36pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

Us white Australians acknowledge history, whilst at the same time believing that those who were not involved in the problems of the past should not try to assume some victimhood appropriation.

Correct, but "us white Austrlians" SHOULD ensure the present-day descendents of the losers of past (cultural and economic) conflicts are equipped to participate and prosper in the modern world.

Quote:

Those people whose culture is incongruous with modern lifestyles should suffer the consequences of not being part of modern society.

Verging into blame the victims of history ideology.

We smashed their culture, and if they insist on hanging onto it, we need to guarantee alternatives for them (housing and jobs) - as a guide showing the benefits of living in the modern world.

But you can't even 'guide' 1.5 million un- and underemployed white Australians ...some of whom are forced to sleep like the hunter-gatherers.

Deplorable.

Where does the idea for the right to preserve (prehistoric) culture come from?

Rights being attributes of individuals first and last and of groups only second, if at all.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4451 - May 26^th, 2024 at 6:16pm

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

Us white Australians acknowledge history, whilst at the same time believing that those who were not involved in the problems of the past should not try to assume some victimhood appropriation.

Correct, but "us white Austrlians" SHOULD ensure the present-day descendents of the losers of past (cultural and economic) conflicts are equipped to participate and prosper in the modern world.

Quote:

Those people whose culture is incongruous with modern lifestyles should suffer the consequences of not being part of modern society.

Verging into blame the victims of history ideology.

We smashed their culture, and if they insist on hanging onto it, we need to guarantee alternatives for them (housing and jobs) - as a guide showing the benefits of living in the modern world.

But you can't even 'guide' 1.5 million un- and underemployed white Australians ...some of whom are forced to sleep like the hunter-gatherers.

Deplorable.

Where does the idea for the right to preserve (prehistoric) culture come from?

The same place the idea for the 'right' to preserve ANY culture comes from.

You shouldn't need to ask, after the debate about man-made 'rights'

Quote:

Rights being attributes of individuals first and last and of groups only second, if at all.

You have it back to front; individual 'rights' are constructs designed to serve self-interested individuals (who might want to fight to settle a dispute), whereas the UNUDHR is a construct based on the concept of morality justice and fairness for all.

Let the lesson sink in this time.

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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4452 - May 26^th, 2024 at 7:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 6:16pm:

Frank wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:36pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:25pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:22pm:

UnSubRocky wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 11:08am:

thegreatdivide wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 6:41pm:

No surprise you lot are arguing amongst yourselves, citing history, while missing the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality.

I said we all need to work to prosper - true at present; but Musk, looking forward as is his wont, said today we will all need to find meaning in life without working, as AI and robots will soon satisfy our material needs.

A new world is on the horizon.

Could you rewrite all of that so that it makes sense?

This? :

"the necessity for all cultures to change according to increasing awareness of objective reality."?

(I assume the rest is straightfoward, and not beyond your capacity for comprehension...)

So:

It is necessary for all cultures to develop (to not remain established as immutable truth), as scientific discovery advances human awarenes of objective truth, aka "reality'.

Comprehend?

Us white Australians acknowledge history, whilst at the same time believing that those who were not involved in the problems of the past should not try to assume some victimhood appropriation.

Correct, but "us white Austrlians" SHOULD ensure the present-day descendents of the losers of past (cultural and economic) conflicts are equipped to participate and prosper in the modern world.

Quote:

Those people whose culture is incongruous with modern lifestyles should suffer the consequences of not being part of modern society.

Verging into blame the victims of history ideology.

We smashed their culture, and if they insist on hanging onto it, we need to guarantee alternatives for them (housing and jobs) - as a guide showing the benefits of living in the modern world.

But you can't even 'guide' 1.5 million un- and underemployed white Australians ...some of whom are forced to sleep like the hunter-gatherers.

Deplorable.

Where does the idea for the right to preserve (prehistoric) culture come from?

The same place the idea for the 'right' to preserve ANY culture comes from.

Where's that?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Frank

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Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum
Reply #4453 - May 26^th, 2024 at 7:44pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 6:16pm:

You have it back to front; individual 'rights' are constructs designed to serve self-interested individuals (who might want to fight to settle a dispute), whereas the UNUDHR is a construct based on the concept of morality justice and fairness for all.

Let the lesson sink in this time.

Incoherent gibberish.

Just because you can string along buzz words doesn't mean they mean anything. This string of nonsense is an example - utterly meaningless tosh.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 82026 Proud pre-1850's NO Voter Gender:	Re: The Aboriginal Voice referendum Reply #4454 - May 26^th, 2024 at 10:30pm So if 'we' seek to preserve our culture - as the majority now - we are 'racist' - but every attempt by the now small minority to preserve their culture is a road to glory and an absolute right? Just as long as we all know...
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

Poll
Question: Will the referendum be voted in?
* This poll has now closed *
No 42 (75.0%) Yes 14 (25.0%) Total votes: 56 « Last Modified by: Redmond Neck on: Feb 25^th, 2023 at 11:17am »