Australian Politics Forum - The Australian Wars

Gnads Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 31417 Gender:	Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Reply #390 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:55pm random wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:49pm: http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/GrapplerBEER.jpg We have such a choice when you offer up your woke lefty bullshyte ad infinitum
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #391 - Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:58pm

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:13am:

Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.

That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. Roll Eyes

Well - he didn't say that last night on that show. It wasn't a 'war' it was a series of minor altercations without general organisation, oversight or command, and without any real strategy.

mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places.

Furthermore - it was not a war on behalf of Australia other than by verb al chicanery - those fighting on the Indigenous side were actually AGAINST Australia as known since 1788 - the Civil War that may re-ignite if things keep going downhill the way they are (as random leaped on and distorted beyond belief) .... so it does not warrant a place in the AWM.

A separate memorial to BOTH sides is more appropriate.

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Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 44327	Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life Reply #392 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 1:40pm Recognising the warriors: Henry Reynolds on the war memorial’s surprising change of direction
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #393 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:29pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:13am:

Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.

That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. Roll Eyes

mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places.

See how your blind partisanship cancels your ability for rational analysis...there were violent clashes West of the Great Dividing Range also.

As for the black claim to Goat Island in c.2016, that was 2 centuries after the ethnic cleansing in the Sydney area.

I refuse to answer the rest of your post when you begin with such partisan nonsense as above.

GIGO, as is regularly the case with you.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #394 - Oct 7^th, 2022 at 6:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:29pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:13am:

Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.

That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. Roll Eyes

mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places.

See how your blind partisanship cancels your ability for rational analysis...there were violent clashes West of the Great Dividing Range also.

As for the black claim to Goat Island in c.2016, that was 2 centuries after the ethnic cleansing in the Sydney area.

I refuse to answer the rest of your post when you begin with such partisan nonsense as above.

GIGO, as is regularly the case with you.

So you totally confuse the violent clashes with some form of ethnic cleansing. Clearly you know nothing - since in order to claim Goat Island the tribe(s) that did so must have continuous connection.... therefore they were NOT 'ethnically cleansed'. You and mothra are both totally wrong.

Are you now saying that those who took over Goat Island are NOT the 'traditional owners', but are just a bunch of scrags that wandered in and thought it was a good thing to get hold of and a government just gave it to these scrag ends?? Jeez - you'd better go public with your knowledge of all this.

YOU are the one not being rational - like more than a few others here - you are impervious to facts and rational conclusions.

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Gnads

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #395 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:32am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:29pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:13am:

Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.

That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. Roll Eyes

mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places.

See how your blind partisanship cancels your ability for rational analysis...there were violent clashes West of the Great Dividing Range also.

As for the black claim to Goat Island in c.2016, that was 2 centuries after the ethnic cleansing in the Sydney area.

I refuse to answer the rest of your post when you begin with such partisan nonsense as above.

GIGO, as is regularly the case with you.

200 years of ethnic cleansing yet there are still enough traditional owners left to claim this Goat Island?

I would have thought that after 200 years of this ethnic cleansing there would not have been any left.

Funny that there are also more Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before ..... a place where all the Aboriginals were supposed to have been shot out or shipped to offshore Bass Strait Islands where they died out. Roll Eyes

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Frank

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #396 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:04am

This island could be going to the 'wrong' Aboriginal people
Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is set to be handed to Aboriginal people who have no cultural connection to the site.

Ownership of Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is about to be handed to the “wrong” Aboriginal people, many of whom come from western NSW and have no cultural connection to the area, descendants of the harbour’s original inhabitants say.

It would be culturally offensive for Goat Island, or Me-Mel, to be awarded to the Metropolitan Local Aboriginal Land Council “because it is controlled by foreigners”, said Ash Walker, a member of the La Perouse Aboriginal community.

“There’s a large population of people who are descended from the traditional owners of coastal Sydney who are the rightful owners of Goat Island,” he said.

In May, NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet announced a $43m investment to support the return of Me-Mel – once home to Aboriginal leader Bennelong and often described as the jewel in the crown of Sydney Harbour – to the Indigenous community, but Mr Walker, son of rugby union great Lloyd Walker, said it would be wrong for the MLALC to gain ownership of the island when at least 31 original inhabitants of the area have now been identified.

Mr Walker is a descendant of two of those coastal Sydney inhabitants, Betsy Madden and Mary-Ann Lyons.

The 33-year-old Oxford University-educated strategy consultant and former lawyer said the MLALC was controlled by Aboriginal people who had come to Sydney from other areas of NSW and had no cultural connection to the land.

“This is why the spokesperson featured in the announcement was MLALC deputy chair Yvonne Weldon, a Wiradjuri woman from Cowra in western NSW,” Mr Walker said.

Local Aboriginal land councils are statutory entities whose boundaries and membership are not linked to any traditional ownership.

“Being a member of an Aboriginal land council doesn’t mean that you speak for that country,” Mr Walker said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/the-oz/news/this-island-could-be-going-to-the-w...

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #397 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:07am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 7^th, 2022 at 3:29pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 5:58pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 12:58pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Oct 6^th, 2022 at 9:13am:

Well - if there is agreement that there should be a national memorial that gives a fair rendition of both sides of these minor conflicts, I'm happy to go with that - but clearly this does not belong in the War Memorial.

That was the AWM under Brendan Nelson, acting on intructions from PM John Howard. It was an unpopular view and one protested a great deal. The new director Matt Anderson has lately adopted a different view. The point is, it was a war, it occurred on Australian soil and it largely concerned Australians and deserved to be commemorated, which is, afterall, the job of the AWM. Roll Eyes

mothra attempted to say the strategic aim was 'ethnic cleansing/clearing the land' in the Greater Sydney Basin, but she fell short when it came to the ability of remaining tribes to claim Goat Island and not a few other places.

See how your blind partisanship cancels your ability for rational analysis...there were violent clashes West of the Great Dividing Range also.

As for the black claim to Goat Island in c.2016, that was 2 centuries after the ethnic cleansing in the Sydney area.

I refuse to answer the rest of your post when you begin with such partisan nonsense as above.

GIGO, as is regularly the case with you.

So you totally confuse the violent clashes with some form of ethnic cleansing.[/]

No..violent racial clashes with fatalities were the result of the frontier wars following the Oz-wide land grab (beginning in 1788) by white settlers during "terra nullius" period

"The High Court's Mabo judgment in 1992 overturned the terra nullius fiction. In the same judgment, however, the High Court accepted the British assertion of sovereignty in 1788, and held that from that time there was only one sovereign power and one system of law in Australia."

Trouble is blacks don't accept it, and whites are cheering them on.....

Quote:

Clearly you know nothing - since in order to claim Goat Island the tribe(s) that did so must have continuous connection.... therefore they were NOT 'ethnically cleansed'. You and mothra are both totally wrong.

No-one is denying there were black survivors to the frontier wars.

Quote:

Are you now saying that those who took over Goat Island are NOT the 'traditional owners',

Afdter Mabo, a court of law apparently confirmed traditional ownership by the black claimants.

Quote:

but are just a bunch of scrags that wandered in and thought it was a good thing to get hold of and a government just gave it to these scrag ends?? Jeez - you'd better go public with your knowledge of all this.

Examined and refuted above.

Quote:

YOU are the one not being rational - like more than a few others here - you are impervious to facts and rational conclusions.

Refuted above.

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« Last Edit: Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:13am by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #398 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:18am

Gnads wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 8:32am:

200 years of ethnic cleansing yet there are still enough traditional owners left to claim this Goat Island?

Of course theree were survivors of the frontier wars,

Quote:

I would have thought that after 200 years of this ethnic cleansing there would not have been any left.

You'd be wrong.

Quote:

Funny that there are also more Aboriginals in Tasmania now than ever before ..... a place where all the Aboriginals were supposed to have been shot out or shipped to offshore Bass Strait Islands where they died out. Roll Eyes

Yes, confusion over the term "aboriginal" is rife.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #399 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:25am

Frank wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:04am:

This island could be going to the 'wrong' Aboriginal people
Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is set to be handed to Aboriginal people who have no cultural connection to the site.

Ownership of Sydney Harbour’s historic Goat Island is about to be handed to the “wrong” Aboriginal people, many of whom come from western NSW and have no cultural connection to the area, descendants of the harbour’s original inhabitants say.

It would be culturally offensive for Goat Island, or Me-Mel, to be awarded to the Metropolitan Local Aboriginal Land Council “because it is controlled by foreigners”, said Ash Walker, a member of the La Perouse Aboriginal community.

“There’s a large population of people who are descended from the traditional owners of coastal Sydney who are the rightful owners of Goat Island,” he said.

In May, NSW Premier Dominic Perrottet announced a $43m investment to support the return of Me-Mel – once home to Aboriginal leader Bennelong and often described as the jewel in the crown of Sydney Harbour – to the Indigenous community, but Mr Walker, son of rugby union great Lloyd Walker, said it would be wrong for the MLALC to gain ownership of the island when at least 31 original inhabitants of the area have now been identified.

Mr Walker is a descendant of two of those coastal Sydney inhabitants, Betsy Madden and Mary-Ann Lyons.

The 33-year-old Oxford University-educated strategy consultant and former lawyer said the MLALC was controlled by Aboriginal people who had come to Sydney from other areas of NSW and had no cultural connection to the land.

“This is why the spokesperson featured in the announcement was MLALC deputy chair Yvonne Weldon, a Wiradjuri woman from Cowra in western NSW,” Mr Walker said.

Local Aboriginal land councils are statutory entities whose boundaries and membership are not linked to any traditional ownership.

“Being a member of an Aboriginal land council doesn’t mean that you speak for that country,” Mr Walker said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/the-oz/news/this-island-could-be-going-to-the-w...

Yes: and trust the High Court to issue a rather inadequate ruling on 'terra nullius' and 'sovereignty':

"The High Court's Mabo judgment in 1992 overturned the terra nullius fiction. In the same judgment, however, the High Court accepted the British assertion of sovereignty in 1788, and held that from that time there was only one sovereign power and one system of law in Australia."

The High Court forgot to explain all this to blacks...

Now the lawyers are having a field day over claims to Goat Island.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The Australian Wars - Culture is Life
Reply #400 - Oct 8^th, 2022 at 11:10am

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 8^th, 2022 at 10:07am: