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Immigration (Read 46944 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1335 - Jun 11th, 2024 at 5:25pm
 
Surprised Sunak does not let the floodgate of Indian migration take place, so that more people look like him in his country.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1336 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 9:41am
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 5:25pm:
Surprised Sunak does not let the floodgate of Indian migration take place, so that more people look like him in his country.


Similar thoughts crossed my mind.... how those worms turn once they start actually turning... nearly posted a thing on the 'rise of the right' in Europe last night... figured it was a bit premature until the Chermans got a good grip on it and started to 'relieve' Ukraine or something from Russian violence and abuse... the main spot was Neo-Napoleonic France - they had a shot at Russia too, only this time much better I think.  Remember that Napoleon actually created the design of 'modern Europe' by losing and thus leading to the rise of such minor kingdoms as Chermany back then... and you know where that took us.  If Nappy had won we might be enjoying escargots in Moscow and Leningrad....... a little fillet mignon ... fine Brie etc .... vin extraordinaire....

Interesting...  I'm busy again today... back to eddicate yez later, along with the trannies on that other forum who just can't accept that their ideology has gone down in one... the West needs to restore and reset itself.... educating the young dorks properly has to be a good place to start.
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1337 - Jun 12th, 2024 at 9:53am
 
Frank wrote on Jun 11th, 2024 at 5:13pm:
Why don't you try to make sense? Would be novel experience for you, SadScrots.

What is that solution? What is the difference between being against immigration and complaining about it?


There is a difference between objecting to the migration levels and the individual immigrants who come here.

Then there is the standard motive of blaming all our problems on immigration levels rather than addressing the actual causes.  From a conservative standpoint, this is by design because it's their ideology that has us in this mess.

We have a huge skills shortage in the building and construction industry.  This is pushing out build time and helping to cause further issues with the housing supply.

Rather than highlighting that fact, the conservatives want to blame it on too many people coming here, pushing up demand.

They do this because there have been significant cuts to TAFE funding under Coalition governments at both federal and state levels. These cuts have led to fewer course offerings, reduced support services, and decreased infrastructure investment. As a result, the capacity of TAFE institutions to train and upskill the domestic workforce has been impaired.

The underfunding of TAFE has directly impacted the availability of skilled workers in various industries. TAFE is a primary provider of vocational education and training in Australia, and reductions in its capacity have led to fewer qualified graduates in trades and technical fields. This has contributed to skills shortages in critical areas such as construction, healthcare, engineering, and information technology.

We need to import these workers or outsource to fill the shortage.

The Coalition and I suspect their supporters, do not want to admit and own this fact.

They are responsible.

The Coalition has done this deliberately on multiple fronts.  Forcing us to outsource workers will help push local wages down and tipping the supply and demand in housing will boost their property portfolios.

All of this has come true.

Now for the solutions.  In the modern version of capitalism, we need to have infinite growth.  So in order to do that, and fill the skills shortages, we need more people here.

More people means more consumers, which on top of the Coalition trying their hardest to kill off manufacturing in the country means it's the only way to keep growth numbers high.

Without growth numbers increasing, we will have a recession.

The short version is, the Coalition ideology and playbook that so many people support here has directly led to the issues we face today.

There is no quick fix.  We need to boost funding for TAFE and increase more locally trained workers in the fields we have shortages in, but that takes time, so we need the migration levels to keep things chugging along until we can reach that point.

But it has downsides, mainly housing and pushing infrastructure past capacity if it isn't already.

The alternative is to cut migration levels and accept that it will push us into a recession.

The Coalition and its support base are not forward thinkers.  They'll push for lower migration levels and then complain when it triggers a recession and all those with high interest rate mortgages will end up owing many times more than their house is worth as the bubble bursts and won't have nearly the same earning capacity to pay for it.

And if the Coalition is lucky, they'll lose the next election so this happens under Labor.

Since we don't have any sort of manufacturing sector (thanks in large to the Coalition) and our resources are being squandered (again thanks to the Coalition), the housing market is one of the major pillars propping up the economy.

If that falls while we're already in a recession it's going to mean things will be catastrophic.

So we are now facing the cost of a decade of Coalition damage and destruction, with guaranteed pain ahead if we continue to follow their playbook of blaming everything on immigrants and cutting migration levels and leaving it at that.

It's going to take more funding for TAFE, more migration in the short term and more support for families until the housing sector can catch up and boost supply with an increased local workforce, not imported.

This will require more regulation around protections for renters, stricter lending criteria and more banking regulation. 

It will require more subsidies for students on top of the greater funding for TAFE to encourage more people to enter the industries we have the shortfalls, and until we see the fruits of that, we will need to keep migration levels up to keep growth increasing.

We will also need to rethink the royalties on the Resources and Mining industries to help full the void from the housing market as what is propping up the economy.

All of that is toxic to the Coalition and their supporters.

Or we just accept that the battle waged by the Coalition against local manufacturing, TAFE, Resources and affordable housing will send us to a recession and embrace it, hoping those who make it through will be better off on the other side.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1338 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 1:58pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 7:48pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 3rd, 2024 at 12:27pm:
Your error: we are talking about the egregious socio- economic gap affecting low income blacks in Oz, as measured by life expectancy and incarceration rates, compared with non-blacks (and the few high income blacks like Dodson , not white-blacks like Thorpe).   

Your proposition that it is all about 'personal accountability/ personal responsibility, is willful ignorance.


Guess what, tgd? Making commonsense decisions tends to have a positive influence on one's life.
 

Again, your ignorance: "commonsense" is in short supply among people whose unemployment is maintained by the poverty industry...aka "welfare", and who are addicted to and destroyed by the grog industry

Quote:
Today, I went to do a blood test...
 

...talking about yourself again: irrelevant to addressing the causes of very real socio-economic disadvanage in the community.

Quote:
**If all indigenous people made that much effort to be presentable, law-abiding, courteous, educated, and ready to make a contribution to society, that gap would not exist.


Meanwhile, white socio-economic disadvantage is also real, the elimination of which requires the correct government policies eg a Job Guarantee, in lieu of the poverty industry aka "welfare". 

Quote:
[i]And that gap only exists because of the lack of motivation by indigenous people in larger proportion compared to non-indigenous to not help get themselves out of poverty.


Wrong: if the jobs aren't available the government must create them, to get rid of welfare dependency. 

Quote:
Amazing. More blathering pseudo-intellectual bullshit of irrelevancy.


Nothing pseudo-intellectual about government ensuring jobs for all to get rid of welfare dependency; or pointing out "we smashed their culture", and therefore its the government's responsibility to assist them to transition from the "dreamtime" into the modern world.

Quote:
If you want to live a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, of course you are not going to live very long lives. But if you want to sit on a generous welfare set specifically for your racial background, of course you are going to not look after yourself.


Amazing, two correct statements from you...you do surprise at times.

So we need to get rid both their "Dreamtime" culture AND OUR "welfare"culture. 

Quote:
The moment we start cutting indigenous special privileges and make indigenous people be treated the same as non-indigenous people, you will see the smugness disappear from indigenous people's faces.
 

Vicious crap. There is little ''smugness" on the faces of poverty, whether they be white or black faces. 

Quote:
If we implemented this tomorrow, I could imagine that the results of the Australian 2026 Census will reveal that most previous indigenous claimants no longer think they are indigenous.


Cheap shot to avoiding dealing with the poverty industry.

Just like  black activists - whether black, black-white, or white - don't want to address the poverty industry and its entrenched welfare dependency.
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Frank
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1339 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 4:17pm
 
The purpose of Ofcom, "BBC Verify" and the various "disinformation" and "misinformation" units that now afflict us is to ensure that free speech gets hemmed in ever more tightly within parameters that ensure nothing of any consequence will ever be discussed. The most pitiful moment on Friday night came when Farage's riff on mass migration was received in stony silence and the Scots Nationalist bloke denounced him and said migrants were great and very necessary - and the crowd erupted into rapturous applause, cheering their own eclipse and the death of their nation. It is kind of impressive to see even a BBC audience willing to go down on the Titanic of multicultural illusions: we don't need no stinkin' lifeboats.

There is no point to Scots nationalism because there aren't going to be any Scots. In 2022, Scottish deaths outnumbered births by thirty per cent. The Scottish people don't need a nation because, on those trends, eventually you'll be able to fit 'em all into a suburban cul-de-sac. So whoever that SNP guy was has now come up with a new rationale - Scots nationalism that doesn't require any actual Scots: you're so touchy that you don't want to be in the same nation as the English, Irish and Welsh, so you want to leave it and be in the same nation as the Sudanese and Albanians.

In the end, it's all demography. The trans madness in which the present Scottish government is so invested is fascinating but ultimately a biological dead end: You can change all the boys into girls and all the girls into boys but in the end there aren't enough of either to alter the outcome. You're merely arguing about who'll be using which bathroom on the Oblivion Express.
https://www.steynonline.com/14366/the-far-right-moves-nearer
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UnSubRocky
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1340 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:36pm
 
It is a farken repetitious cycle of posts with thegreatdivide. I can see little to no variation in his responses, despite me trying to steer him away from the same responses. I figure thegreatdivide is a bot.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1341 - Jun 13th, 2024 at 10:03pm
 
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:36pm:
It is a farken repetitious cycle of posts with thegreatdivide. I can see little to no variation in his responses, despite me trying to steer him away from the same responses. I figure thegreatdivide is a bot.


Message to bot:-

...
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Bobby.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1342 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 6:21am
 

...
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1343 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 7:38am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 10:03pm:
UnSubRocky wrote on Jun 13th, 2024 at 6:36pm:
It is a farken repetitious cycle of posts with thegreatdivide. I can see little to no variation in his responses, despite me trying to steer him away from the same responses. I figure thegreatdivide is a bot.


Message to bot:-

https://media1.tenor.com/m/4goyEL9CgwUAAAAC/twenty-century-fox-meme-gfy.gif


Temper temper...
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SadKangaroo
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1344 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 7:50am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jun 14th, 2024 at 6:21am:


Immigration ≠ Illegal Immigration.

There are bigger problems with our population than Illegal Immigration.

As far as the data I can find, there were no significant reports of new unauthorized maritime arrivals from the year leading up to March 2024.

As of 2021, it was estimated that over 100,000 people were living illegally in Australia, mainly due to visa overstays, and that's the cumulative total, not just people who arrived that year.

The cost of tracking these people down, investigating, prosecuting and then deporting, that money would be better spent on housing programs etc, or better vetting for future legal visa holders to identify more that are likely to overstay.

But that's not the topic of this thread.  You've done a Grap and tried to derail to a talking point you think you have the upper hand in, and like him, it's another example of echo chamber thinking not standing up to the scrutiny of reality.

It seems like nobody is actually interested in the topic of immigration and instead just wants to bash immigrants since the underlying causes and whose fingerprints are all over them are just being ignored.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1345 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:11pm
 
Legal mass immigration causes far more problems than illegal immigration and both cause far more problems than asylum seekers.

I guess that de-railed your little red wagon.... some of you truly are children let loose in the land of big words and small ideas.

Unlike you I've actually done this at uni .... herh, herh ... that means either I know it all or I know nothing..... hmmmmm .... to be or not to be ...... to be a man who stands strong in true knowledge or to be nothing more than part of the lemming rush... that is the question....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1346 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:24pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Jun 14th, 2024 at 7:50am:
Bobby. wrote on Jun 14th, 2024 at 6:21am:


Immigration ≠ Illegal Immigration.

There are bigger problems with our population than Illegal Immigration.

As far as the data I can find, there were no significant reports of new unauthorized maritime arrivals from the year leading up to March 2024.

As of 2021, it was estimated that over 100,000 people were living illegally in Australia, mainly due to visa overstays, and that's the cumulative total, not just people who arrived that year.

The cost of tracking these people down, investigating, prosecuting and then deporting, that money would be better spent on housing programs etc, or better vetting for future legal visa holders to identify more that are likely to overstay.

But that's not the topic of this thread.  You've done a Grap and tried to derail to a talking point you think you have the upper hand in, and like him, it's another example of echo chamber thinking not standing up to the scrutiny of reality.

It seems like nobody is actually interested in the topic of immigration and instead just wants to bash immigrants since the underlying causes and whose fingerprints are all over them are just being ignored.


It's not my meme.
Shall I change the meme?

Instead of illegal immigration - change it to immigration?


https://wentworthreport.com/2021/07/22/australian-immigration-policy/

Hawke agreed with one author’s observation that most voters wanted immigration reduced and that the parties had deliberately kept it out of public debate, saying there had indeed been “an implicit pact between the major parties to implement broad policies on immigration that they know are not generally endorsed by the electorate” and that “they have done this by keeping the subject off the political agenda”

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SadKangaroo
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1347 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 12:53pm
 
You can if you like.

The problem is that most of you complaining about Immigration are more right-leaning in terms of your politics.

Those conservative policies you supported from the Coalition mean we need high migration levels or we'll hit a recession.

You caused this.

Then you want to say it's Labor's problem, well it is now since they're in power, but you won't support the soft of changes needed so we can lower migration levels.

You can't have it both ways.

You support those who caused the problem and attack those trying to fix it, then blame them.
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Bobby.
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1348 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 1:22pm
 


...
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Frank
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Re: Immigration
Reply #1349 - Jun 14th, 2024 at 1:25pm
 
A leading economist has blamed free trade and immigration deals with India made by both major parties for Australia’s inability to control the level of migration and the type of migrants they now claim are needed by the construction industry.

Leith van Onselen wrote in Macrobusiness on Tuesday that the Free Trade Agreement signed with Delhi by the Morrison Coalition government in April 2022 “baked in the importation of yoga teachers”, after it was revealed that Labor’s Jobs and Skills Australia consultation list prioritises those workers ahead of skilled migrants supposedly needed to build homes.

According to the document, yoga instructors, martial artists and dog handlers can be fast-tracked into Australia while plumbers, bricklayers and cabinetmakers are not on the core skills list.

The Morrison FTA put 1,800 yoga teachers in a special category along with chefs, allowing them to stay for more than four years.

“The yoga instructor visa farce was basically a gift to India, alongside the recently signed migration pacts that gives greater rights to Indians wishing to work and migrate to Australia than other nations,” Mr van Onselen wrote.

“Through its various dumb migration deals, Australia has effectively Swiss cheesed its immigration policy, reduced its ability to control migration numbers and quality, and reduced Australia’s sovereignty in controlling its borders.

“We are not a serious country.”





FTAs with third worlders like India, China are stupid/insidious.
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