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SadKangaroo

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Mianjin (Brisbane)

Re: privatisation
Reply #510 - May 25^th, 2024 at 9:41pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

Poor old smithy and kanga..... supporters of every victim industry in Australia and desperately try to move the goal posts... it's not working, head kicker...

I love it when people try on the old reverse psychology trick - gives me a good laugh as well as an insight into their limited mentality and intellect.

You came in here and without prompting, starting talking about the voice.

It's not reverse psychology, it's calling you out for your actions...

Quote:

You pair get triggered when I even post a link without discussion - you know why? You can see the danger as well as I can from these moves - AND you see the clear danger that revealing them is to your ideology.

BTW - the people don't agree with you on any single thing....... 61-39 ... even the Aborigines reject the idea of some white man's idea of representation for them..... they know, you see... at 76 out of 81 the know ... and at the same time are limited in their horizons.... Cool

You're at it again...

You've debunked the claims you're making in the very same post you made them.

That's got to be some kind of stupidity record... Even for this place.

You keep trying these mind games then acting as if you're some sort of intellectual heavyweight.

You just don't get it, do you?

You're simply not that smart. You don't have it in you.

That's ok, it's nothing to be ashamed of, especially if you're willing to work at improving yourself.

Sadly, time and time again, you choose a different path, one where you seem to want to not only convince us but also yourself, that you're not outclassed over and over.

And you'll do it again I'm sure. Know your lane son.

Either way, to try and get back on topic,

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

Can we just agree on what we all mean by privatisation?

All this talk of going off-grid or having one's own solar panels, while valid topics, it's not "privatisation" in the sense of this thread, right?

Well?

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« Last Edit: May 25^th, 2024 at 9:47pm by SadKangaroo »

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: privatisation
Reply #511 - May 25^th, 2024 at 10:14pm

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 9:41pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

Poor old smithy and kanga..... supporters of every victim industry in Australia and desperately try to move the goal posts... it's not working, head kicker...

I love it when people try on the old reverse psychology trick - gives me a good laugh as well as an insight into their limited mentality and intellect.

You came in here and without prompting, starting talking about the voice.

It's not reverse psychology, it's calling you out for your actions...

Quote:

You pair get triggered when I even post a link without discussion - you know why? You can see the danger as well as I can from these moves - AND you see the clear danger that revealing them is to your ideology.

BTW - the people don't agree with you on any single thing....... 61-39 ... even the Aborigines reject the idea of some white man's idea of representation for them..... they know, you see... at 76 out of 81 the know ... and at the same time are limited in their horizons.... Cool

You're at it again...

You've debunked the claims you're making in the very same post you made them.

That's got to be some kind of stupidity record... Even for this place.

You keep trying these mind games then acting as if you're some sort of intellectual heavyweight.

You just don't get it, do you?

You're simply not that smart. You don't have it in you.

That's ok, it's nothing to be ashamed of, especially if you're willing to work at improving yourself.

Sadly, time and time again, you choose a different path, one where you seem to want to not only convince us but also yourself, that you're not outclassed over and over.

And you'll do it again I'm sure. Know your lane son.

Either way, to try and get back on topic,

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

Can we just agree on what we all mean by privatisation?

All this talk of going off-grid or having one's own solar panels, while valid topics, it's not "privatisation" in the sense of this thread, right?

Well?

did-ums ......

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: privatisation
Reply #512 - May 25^th, 2024 at 10:18pm

Heat's too hot - get out of the kitchen...............

I prefer the Two State Solution myself - works for everyone.... I suppose you missed the 'privatisation' involved in 'contracted senior management' that decides on such things, unelected as they are, and behind the backs of the voting public to whom they are not responsible.

Beyond you ....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: privatisation
Reply #513 - May 25^th, 2024 at 11:01pm

Actually - let's make that a Three State Solution - one for the ordinary people of Australia to go their merry way; one for the Aborigines who don't want to be part of Australia and assimilate; one for the politicians and public servants who make the decisions, where they can live on median income and actually live with their own decisions fully before foisting them on the public.

Ausrael, Abestine and Politica.

Abestine will be initially populated by those of Aboriginal bent who say they do not wish to live the Wharte Man's way and they prefer to 'do things their way', and the miscreants who can play merry hell there all they like and be left to the tender mercies of the 'elders' etc. Those who do not wish to go there accept mainstreaming and will be assisted to a better life and education and so forth so as to give them an equal chance to succeed.

Politica speaks for itself... let's see their fancy policies when they have to live with them first hand... same for rogue business people who choose not to obey the rules of civilised behaviour... corporate thieves and so forth, though some may end up in Gon'Mo below.....

True badasses of other kinds will, of course, be housed in Gondwanamo Bay (Gon'Mo), and since this is a small enclave in Abestine, guards can be drawn from the Abestinians who will receive pay for their work. Escapees will not be a problem due to crocodiles, snakes and spear hunters on all sides...

I'm serious...... this is a win-win-win for everyone..... Cool

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: privatisation
Reply #514 - May 26^th, 2024 at 12:30pm

From the Guardian:

The era of small government is ending. And Australians want to regain power ceded to the amoral forces of global capital

Peter Lewis

Australian voters’ expectation of intervention does not begin and end with renewable energy

Buried beneath Jim Chalmers’ budget surplus and inflation tightrope is the hint of something more substantial; a bigger idea of government where tighter limits are imposed on the excesses of the free market.

After four decades of calculated abandonment, citizens are turning to government to intervene more forcefully in their market economies and take back some of the power that has been wilfully ceded to the amoral forces of global capital.

Whether they bang the drum like Donald Trump and his tinpot impersonators or embrace the more nuanced euro-beats of the Scandinavians, there is recognition that the era of small government is coming to an end.

Since the 2020 global pandemic, government has taken a heightened role in people’s lives and, on most policy challenges from cost-of-living “relief” to energy transition to housing affordability to the impact of social media and AI, people want government to step up.

The latest Guardian Essential report reinforces this simmering desire for active leadership, with half of all respondents wanting more active government intervention and just a handful saying they want less.

The only thing keeping the thirst for greater intervention below 50% is ALP voters who are more likely to say they are happy with the current levels of government action. But among all other voters the desire for more muscular leadership is stark.

These numbers are particularly striking given the low levels of trust in government that we repeatedly pick up in our polling. On reflection, I think the cause of a lot of this distrust is that the learned helplessness of the last 40 years has invited public disdain.

Since the end of the cold war, government has departed the field, privatising essential services, removing support for local workers and industries, wilfully ceding control of national wellbeing to large global corporations and ignoring stagnant living standards while celebrating aggregate growth.

Today, people rate corporate greed ahead of government spending or global instability as the main driver of the current cost-of-living pressures that are plaguing the nation. They welcome the budget measures announced last week but are sceptical they will have any real impact on their own financial situation in the face of corporate excess.

Chalmers is regularly measured against his mentor Paul Keating’s credentials for economic reform but it is worth recognising the nature of that reform, and that the problems it addressed were fundamentally different to the challenges facing policymakers today.

Working with Bob Hawke, Keating opened up our then-sclerotic economy, shepherded globalisation to Australia, floating the dollar, removing industry protection, privatising major utilities and deregulating the labour market.

To their credit they established Medicare and superannuation as part of that settlement, leaving Australians in far better shape than the US under Ronald Reagan or the UK under Margaret Thatcher but it still represented a submission to global capital on behalf of the nation state.

Chalmers’ challenge has an inverse focus. In its Future Made in Australia policy, Labor asserts itself an active architect of the energy transition, picking winners in new green technologies and building local supply chains even where cheaper product might exist offshore.

The opposition leader, Peter Dutton, dismisses this as “billions of dollars for billionaires” but, in doing so, he is also conceding the change in era where government has to more forcefully limit the power of capital. While he has been whacking corporate Australia for their commitments to diversity and inclusion, he continues to fight hard for their rights to operate free of industrial constraint.

The broader truth for both parties of government is that the expectation of intervention does not begin and end with renewable energy. At a time when the majority recognise rising economic inequality, voters from both the left and right flanks are looking for more active social interventions.

The budget had justified focus on helping those at the margins, with the reworked tax cuts, energy rebates, increased commonwealth rent assistance, increased funding for the National Disability Insurance Scheme and an overdue review of job services.

But absent is the proposition that government should also be placing limits on the extremities of wealth accumulation with a separate set of questions showing majority support for capping the accumulation of property and taxing extreme wealth.

Note the stronger support among Greens, independents and minor parties for these types of interventions. Hiding in plain sight we might be witnessing a shift from libertarianism to what Belgian philosopher Ingrid Robeyns has coined “limitarianism”.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: privatisation
Reply #515 - May 26^th, 2024 at 12:42pm

John Smith wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 2:50pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 8:27am:

You keep perpetuation subjects, twisting and even manufacturing them, all to paint yourself as the victim so you can complain about them as if to give meaning to your vapid lonely existence.

I've been saying for years now that crappler is the eternal victim. No matter the subject matter or topic.

Graps hates the 'gummit', believing individuals are nice and cooperative, and only need to free themselves from the evil oppressive forces of government.

He forgerts the powerful individuals (bankers controlling international capital, and media owners) who determine what policies governments are able to present to the people.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: privatisation
Reply #516 - May 26^th, 2024 at 12:45pm

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 9:41pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 3:01pm:

Poor old smithy and kanga..... supporters of every victim industry in Australia and desperately try to move the goal posts... it's not working, head kicker...

I love it when people try on the old reverse psychology trick - gives me a good laugh as well as an insight into their limited mentality and intellect.

You came in here and without prompting, starting talking about the voice.

It's not reverse psychology, it's calling you out for your actions...

Quote:

You pair get triggered when I even post a link without discussion - you know why? You can see the danger as well as I can from these moves - AND you see the clear danger that revealing them is to your ideology.

BTW - the people don't agree with you on any single thing....... 61-39 ... even the Aborigines reject the idea of some white man's idea of representation for them..... they know, you see... at 76 out of 81 the know ... and at the same time are limited in their horizons.... Cool

You're at it again...

You've debunked the claims you're making in the very same post you made them.

That's got to be some kind of stupidity record... Even for this place.

You keep trying these mind games then acting as if you're some sort of intellectual heavyweight.

You just don't get it, do you?

You're simply not that smart. You don't have it in you.

That's ok, it's nothing to be ashamed of, especially if you're willing to work at improving yourself.

Sadly, time and time again, you choose a different path, one where you seem to want to not only convince us but also yourself, that you're not outclassed over and over.

And you'll do it again I'm sure. Know your lane son.

Either way, to try and get back on topic,

SadKangaroo wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:55pm:

Can we just agree on what we all mean by privatisation?

All this talk of going off-grid or having one's own solar panels, while valid topics, it's not "privatisation" in the sense of this thread, right?

Well?

Back to top

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 11835 Gender:	Re: privatisation Reply #517 - May 26^th, 2024 at 12:53pm So...has FD run out of more absurd questions, now that I pointed out people who are rich enough and have roofs on which the sun shines, CAN buy rooftop PVs and sell the free electricity to the the grid - but the problem is the obsolete, not fit for purpose, privatized grid which can't cope with the free electricity.
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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: privatisation
Reply #518 - May 26^th, 2024 at 4:13pm

I want my free batteries... keep the pressure up on Albo and he'll firstly subsidise the direct cost of batteries and then offer a pay as you go scheme.... he needs to do something to save the Labor states with their mad treaties with Abos...... behind the people's backs.... maybe he could declare war on someone or something....

Better to give the states the idea that IF re-elected Labor will pay for the batteries and installation through state agency (they've already got enough public servants lying around - all they need is an enforcement arm to make sure there is no rorting) and will accept payment without interest back over time.... push while you've got the bastards on the ropes... never take you knee off their throat - they won't take theirs off yours...

Imagine the hell to follow if you re-elect Labor at state level and off they go on their mad chases again....

The Three State Solution is the best option.... one for Ausraelis, one for Abestinians, and one for politicians and their tame 'public servants' who meddle in everything without let or liability or even reference to the people most of the time. Let the Abestinians live their way - Rocky's 'fourth world standards' - and let the politicos try their ideas out on themselves on a remote island for a few months.... on tiny pay at dole level.... leave the rest of us to prosper and get along without their Madness.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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thegreatdivide

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Re: privatisation
Reply #519 - May 26^th, 2024 at 5:05pm

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 4:13pm:

I want my free batteries...

This is the crux of the issue in an economy which intends to transition to zero emissions; zero waste of electricity from rooftop solar needs to be part of the mix.

Government can actually own the rooftop PVs and batteries for all suitable housing in a nationalized energy system, to ensure access to zero emissions electricity for all consumers regardless of individual wealth.

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SadKangaroo

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Mianjin (Brisbane)

Re: privatisation
Reply #520 - May 26^th, 2024 at 7:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 4:13pm:

I want my free batteries...

This is the crux of the issue in an economy which intends to transition to zero emissions; zero waste of electricity from rooftop solar needs to be part of the mix.

Government can actually own the rooftop PVs and batteries for all suitable housing in a nationalized energy system, to ensure access to zero emissions electricity for all consumers regardless of individual wealth.

That move to government ownership would make the topic close to on topic if that was the case.

It's an intriguing idea.

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Grappler Truth Teller Feller

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Re: privatisation
Reply #521 - May 26^th, 2024 at 11:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 5:05pm:

Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on May 26^th, 2024 at 4:13pm:

I want my free batteries...

This is the crux of the issue in an economy which intends to transition to zero emissions; zero waste of electricity from rooftop solar needs to be part of the mix.

Government can actually own the rooftop PVs and batteries for all suitable housing in a nationalized energy system, to ensure access to zero emissions electricity for all consumers regardless of individual wealth.

Yes - they could - if they were serious. I tried to get that idea across to Peter Garrett when he was in the government.... put 'em up - all reap the benefit... all new housing to include solar and water tanks.

If I move I'll have to buy decent water - nobody sane would drink town water from anywhere. Look what it does to the brains of the city slickers here... oong-gooogle--goo-doo ... walking through their minds here is like walking on a downhill footpath covered in decaying brain matter... and is slippery as hell....

I want to go bush again.... these here city walls are crowding me in ..... got my water tanks but still...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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freediver

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At my desk.

Re: privatisation
Reply #522 - May 27^th, 2024 at 8:25am

SadKangaroo wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

So you're not talking about the government selling public assets to private businesses to run and continue providing the service to the public?

You've decided to redefine "privatisation" for your own ends?

I don't think that whether an asset should be public or private should depend on the history. You apparently do, but you cannot explain. Perhaps you do not know whether that is what you think.

Quote:

It was at least the topic when you started the thread,

No-one other than the CCP wants to start nationalising industries.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 25^th, 2024 at 12:04pm:

your next absurd question is "Why should people not be allowed to supply energy to the grid", again no one is saying this

Yes you are. In the very same post:

Quote:

The government should nationalize the whole electricity industry

Is this another one of your tricks where you mean something other than nationalize the whole electricity industry? Or do you not know what you mean?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: privatisation
Reply #523 - May 27^th, 2024 at 12:45pm

freediver wrote on May 27^th, 2024 at 8:25am:

SadKangaroo wrote on May 24^th, 2024 at 10:41am:

So you're not talking about the government selling public assets to private businesses to run and continue providing the service to the public?

You've decided to redefine "privatisation" for your own ends?

I don't think that whether an asset should be public or private should depend on the history. You apparently do, but you cannot explain. Perhaps you do not know whether that is what you think.

We know you think privatization of electricity was a good idea, despite the fact almost everyone else now recognizes it was a mistake. So much for "history".

Quote:

No-one other than the CCP wants to start nationalising industries.

Ignorant nonsense; I'm the one urging the CCP to nationalize Evergrande and rebuild the nation's public housing stock; and to ditch China's carbon market (tax on carbon emissions) by nationalizing the coal industry and shutting it down ASAP. Whether the CCP has got the memo yet remains to be seen.

Quote:

Yes you are. In the very same post:

The government should nationalize the whole electricity industry

And it should, but it hasn't - which is why private retailers are charging rooftop PV owners to receive the free rooftop PV excess electricity into the grid. Have you suffered a catastrophic loss of IQ?

Quote:

Is this another one of your tricks where you mean something other than nationalize the whole electricity industry? Or do you not know what you mean?

No, it's shows you have suffered a catastrophic loss of IQ, as noted above.

Free free to own your rooftop PVs, but many don't have access or can't afford rooftop PVs (plus battery, so they can use the electricity when they need it).

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48513 At my desk.	Re: privatisation Reply #524 - May 27^th, 2024 at 1:30pm Do you understand that nationalising the entire electricity industry includes people using solar panels to supply power to the grid?
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