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China intimidates Australia (Read 2322 times)
UnSubRocky
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #45 - Jun 7th, 2022 at 10:02pm
 
Labor majority government wrote on Feb 20th, 2022 at 8:56pm:
So we're not keeping operational matters quiet anymore , ah hah


That is a good observation. If the RAAF were genuinely threatened by this, we would not hear about the incident.
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Frank
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #46 - Jul 11th, 2022 at 8:41am
 
A separate summary of the meeting issued by China’s Foreign Ministry said there were four requirements for Australia to improve the relationship.

First, Mr Wang said, Australia must treat China as a “partner rather than a rival”.

Second, the two countries must seek “common ground while shelving differences”.

Third, Australia must reject “manipulation by a third party”, he said, without naming the US.

Fourth, both countries must build “public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism”.

Rory Medcalf, head of the National Security College at the Australian National University, said Beijing was “likely to be disappointed” by Canberra “unless China itself changes course”.


“Wang Yi’s first two points are not so unreasonable, provided that they are read as aspirations rather than demands, and that China itself were to respect them,” Professor Medcalf told The Australian.

“The third and fourth conditions are where it gets most unrealistic. Reject manipulation by a third party? That is based on the nonsensical view that Australian foreign policy is dictated by America, whereas it’s a matter of record that Canberra has independently shown the way for Washington and others in pushing back against Beijing.

“Build public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism? Beijing telling Canberra to tell Australians what to think? That’s wilful ignorance of the nature of democracy, a free media and the character of Australians.”

Australian National University Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies John Blaxland said the “issuing of demands” was unhelpful.

“That’s politically toxic in domestic Australian politics nowadays. Penny Wong knows that and is not going to agree to them, just like the PRC is not going to agree to a list of ‘demands’ Australia could justifiably put to Beijing,” he said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/australia-the-root-cause-of-bre...



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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #47 - Jul 11th, 2022 at 10:12pm
 
I said Fried Rice - not boiled!!
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #48 - Jul 12th, 2022 at 12:36am
 
Frank wrote on Jul 11th, 2022 at 8:41am:
“The third and fourth conditions are where it gets most unrealistic. Reject manipulation by a third party? That is based on the nonsensical view that Australian foreign policy is dictated by America, whereas it’s a matter of record that Canberra has independently shown the way for Washington and others in pushing back against Beijing.


LOL...Like the paranoid banning of Huawei by Turnbull on CIA orders, whose stated goal is to maintain US global hegemony at all costs. 

Quote:
“Build public support featuring positiveness and pragmatism? Beijing telling Canberra to tell Australians what to think? That’s wilful ignorance of the nature of democracy, a free media and the character of Australians.”


Yes, but the constant beating of the "China threat" theory, aided and abetted by Oz "security" spooks,  is annoying to China, to say the least.

Quote:
Australian National University Professor of International Security and Intelligence Studies John Blaxland said the “issuing of demands” was unhelpful.

That’s politically toxic in domestic Australian politics nowadays. Penny Wong knows that and is not going to agree to them, just like the PRC is not going to agree to a list of ‘demands’ Australia could justifiably put to Beijing,” he said.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/australia-the-root-cause-of-bre...


So Blaxland is saying China's "demands" are not necessarily unreasonable, just that they are "politically toxic"  - not surprising, given the paranoia at the heart of relations in our broken world, ruled by 'security' spooks.   




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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #49 - Jul 12th, 2022 at 1:07am
 
Yes - that
CCP
threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right - the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective.

In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it.

Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed....

Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #50 - Jul 13th, 2022 at 2:18pm
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 1:07am:
Yes - that
CCP
threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right


Well of course if international law as defined by the UN - not by you - was able to be defended, then the CCP would be subject to those same international laws as you.

But you refuse to submit to internal law. Case closed.

Quote:
- the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective.


Pass..

Quote:
In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy*** by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it.


***but they would quick smart willingly "waste the lives" of Chinese people in a Taiwan war, if they knew they could get away unscathed).

Until recently, the ROC claimed THEY were the true government of China, of course the CCP, who won the civil war, disagreed. Now the ROC have decided to accept are no longer the government of China...but guess what, the CCP STILL believe they are the government of China, why should the CCP change its mind, just because the ROC has conceded?

Quote:
Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed....


You mean like Iran in 1973, when the popularly-elected socialist PM Moseddagh tried to nationalize Iran's own oil production, to retain profits for the Iranian people?

The CIA had other ideas, of course...

Quote:
Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.


Indeed.
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #51 - May 14th, 2024 at 10:21am
 
Chinese police hunting international corruption targets were allowed into Australia by the federal police and subsequently escorted a woman back to China for trial, in a major breach of Chinese-Australian police protocols.

The revelations, contained in Monday night's Four Corners program about a former Chinese spy, prompted a sharp rebuke from federal politicians who are concerned the act may have undermined Australia's national security.

The Chinese police were permitted to enter Australia in 2019 to talk with a 59-year-old Chinese-born Australian resident.

The woman was targeted under a Chinese Communist Party (CCP) anti-corruption drive called Operation Fox Hunt, which relies on police from the Ministry of Public Security (MPS) to make arrests.

While Fox Hunt is described by the CCP as targeting "economic criminals", human rights groups have said it is also used to silence dissidents and abduct people around the world.

'An extrajudicial extradition'
Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Paterson said the revelations were alarming.

"I'm very concerned to hear that the Australian Federal Police has apparently facilitated an operation of the Ministry of Public Security here in Australia, which has resulted in an Australian resident returning to China," Senator Paterson said.  "This could amount to what sounds like an extrajudicial extradition of an Australian resident."
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #52 - May 14th, 2024 at 10:35am
 
Grappler Truth Teller Feller wrote on Jul 12th, 2022 at 1:07am:
Yes - that
CCP
threat..... the one that keeps encroaching on the national waters and lands of sovereign nations as if by some right - the only 'right' being conferred by the quite unwarranted fear that its massive military is really effective.

In reality the only thing that stops the West from reacting other than with words is that they are human - and do not wish to waste the lives of their sons and daughters on some silly adventurist policy by some upstart nation that cannot see that trading is a much better way to get things than trying to take it.

Every nation that has tried to control its access to resources has failed - for the simple reason that the very prosperity that may create encourages those supplying nations to expect more..... not only that - but when a nation seeks to secure control of those resources by force and stealth - eventually resistance will build to the point of open war.  Then one nation against the world means the one nation is doomed....

Better to trade on amicable terms and stop rattling the sabres and trying to impose on the sovereignty of small nations, and, by extension, on the spheres of interest of other and larger nations.



Oh who, who is going to save you?
...
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #53 - May 14th, 2024 at 10:42am
 
Chinese students studying overseas are being subjected to harassment and intimidation by Beijing authorities, leading to self-censorship and anxiety, a report by Amnesty International has found.

The human rights advocacy group said its findings, based on student testimonies, raised serious questions for university leaders and governments about how to protect Chinese students from what it termed “transnational repression”.

The students, including some interviewed separately by the Financial Times, said harassment included photographing them attending protests, tracking their activities on social media and pressuring family members in China to urge them to conform.

The report adds to calls from other advocacy groups including Human Rights Watch and Freedom House for more action to protect overseas students from pressure from authoritarian home governments.

Research regarding the Chinese government’s transnational repression in the university and academic context has been relatively limited. Among the few notable exceptions are a report by Human Rights Watch documenting the targeting of Chinese international students in Australia issued in 2021,  37 a report by Freedom House on transnational repression and universities in the USA published in February 2024,38 and media reporting on a growing number of individual incidents. Amnesty International’s report is the most wide-ranging documentation to date of the Chinese government’s transnational repression at foreign universities.

https://www.ft.com/content/f219a89f-dd11-41a3-bc96-998e2a9deae6


June 30, 2021
“They Don’t Understand the Fear We Have”
How China’s Long Reach of Repression Undermines Academic Freedom at Australia’s Universities
https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/06/30/they-dont-understand-fear-we-have/how-chin...

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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #54 - May 18th, 2024 at 8:48am
 
The image of Chinese solar panels being used to build garden fences in Germany should deepen the winter chill in Canberra.

There is no future made in Australia, or much of anywhere else, so long as Beijing weaponises manufacturing; flooding the world with goods so cheap no other economy can compete.




In his speech launching the policy, Anthony Albanese listed the countries in the industry policy arms race. There is $500bn in the US Inflation Reduction Act, the EU’s European Economic Security Strategy, Japan’s Economic Security Promotion Act, the Republic of Korea’s National Security Strategy and Canada’s moves to tighten foreign direct investment in its critical mineral reserves.

“All these countries are investing in their industrial base, their manufacturing capability and their economic sovereignty,” the Prime Minister said.  “This is not old-fashioned protectionism or isolationism, it is the new competition”.

Timeless semantics aside, the silence on one player screams from this speech. The Prime Minister name-checked every major subsidy program except the one that rules them all: the one made in China.

Each of the countries he named is reacting to Beijing’s deliberate subversion of the world marketplace. And many have made pointed statements about the method behind their madness by taking aim at China. But here the price of trade peace seems to be Beijing never has to say it’s sorry and Canberra dutifully says nothing.

Not so US Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, who accused China of using its “state-owned enterprises and domestic private firms to dominate foreign competitors”.

She took it one step further, saying, “This strategy has been coupled with aggressive efforts to acquire new technological know-how and intellectual property including through IP theft and other illicit means.”


In passing, lest anyone argue that China is somehow doing the planet a favour, let’s note that while it dominates green manufacturing it burns 54 per cent of the globe’s coal. It was issuing permits for coal-fired power plants at the rate of two a week in 2022 and accounts for 35 per cent of global carbon emissions. So if the intent of this green trade war is to cut emissions then the logic is missing in action.
Chris Uhlmann
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #55 - May 18th, 2024 at 8:51am
 
Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us?
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #56 - May 18th, 2024 at 9:11am
 
With its thumb pressed hard on the trade scales, Beijing is expunging competition in some sectors from the international landscape. Start spreading the news, if you can’t make it there you can’t make it anywhere.
This second “China shock” is shaking the world. The first came after China entered the World Trade Organisation. Then, in parts of the US that were directly competing in manufacturing, a million jobs were lost. Another 1.5 million vanished from the communities where industry was shuttered.

While Americans benefited from lower prices overall there was desolation in some regions, mostly the midwest and southeast, and the effects were persistent. Thriving communities withered into poverty. There is a reason for the searing anger at Washington in parts of the US and it is bloodlessly rational. But that is another story.

Analysis of the second China shock led by Brad Setser from the US Council on Foreign Relations calculates Beijing’s manufacturing surplus now stands at about 2 per cent of world GDP, roughly $2.5 trillion. That is bigger than Australia’s economy and “far exceeds the peak surpluses run by export powerhouses like Japan and Germany”.

Highlighting China’s massive subsidy-driven surplus in manufactured exports does not imply that in a free-trade world every country including China would have a balance in its manufactured exports and imports. But any comparative advantage China may have in manufacturing is dwarfed by the Chinese Communist Party subsidies designed to crush international competition.

This presents a wicked dilemma for any government. If you want the cheapest, fastest route to decarbonising your economy then let Chinese solar panels and EVs flood your market. This also would help cut inflation even as it lays waste to domestic industries and increases carbon emissions in China.

If, however, you want a piece of the burgeoning green manufacturing market and would like to stay in office, then block Chinese goods with prohibitive tariffs and try to build a local industry behind the flood walls. This will create some jobs but it will deliver more expensive and probably inferior products. That will drive inflation up and slow down the reduction in domestic emissions.


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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #57 - May 18th, 2024 at 9:49am
 
Victorian  & no doubt other states householders with solar putting energy back into the grid are now  being charged to do so.

Thus turning the residential rooftop solar energy policy introduced and pushed by govts about 15 years ago into a white elephant on their homes.

So instead of getting a return on your investment you are going to be charged to have it. Angry

That is unless you go off grid and get expensive battery backup for night use........

as long as the battery doesn't explode and burn your house down & gas you with toxic fumes.

That also costing $thousands more per household to put into the pockets of energy companies & companies pushing the renewable products.

It's an absolute scandal. As bad as water authorities charging farmers for water that falls from the sky that they collect in dams on their properties that they paid to have installed.

Quote:
Power companies will soon be able to charge Australians with rooftop solar panels for exporting electricity to the grid, under new rules introduced by the Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC).


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-12/power-companies-to-charge-solar-owners-fo...
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #58 - May 18th, 2024 at 2:43pm
 
freediver wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 8:51am:
Why is it such a bad thing if the Chinese government subsidises our electricity for us?


Very perspicacious of you.

So much so - I'm guessing you are being sarcastic....
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Re: China intimidates Australia
Reply #59 - May 18th, 2024 at 2:52pm
 
Frank wrote on May 18th, 2024 at 9:11am:
With its thumb pressed hard on the trade scales, Beijing is expunging competition in some sectors from the international landscape. Start spreading the news, if you can’t make it there you can’t make it anywhere.
This second “China shock” is shaking the world. The first came after China entered the World Trade Organisation. Then, in parts of the US that were directly competing in manufacturing, a million jobs were lost. Another 1.5 million vanished from the communities where industry was shuttered.

While Americans benefited from lower prices overall there was desolation in some regions, mostly the midwest and southeast, and the effects were persistent. Thriving communities withered into poverty. There is a reason for the searing anger at Washington in parts of the US and it is bloodlessly rational. But that is another story.

Analysis of the second China shock led by Brad Setser from the US Council on Foreign Relations calculates Beijing’s manufacturing surplus now stands at about 2 per cent of world GDP, roughly $2.5 trillion. That is bigger than Australia’s economy and “far exceeds the peak surpluses run by export powerhouses like Japan and Germany”.

Highlighting China’s massive subsidy-driven surplus in manufactured exports does not imply that in a free-trade world every country including China would have a balance in its manufactured exports and imports. But any comparative advantage China may have in manufacturing is dwarfed by the Chinese Communist Party subsidies designed to crush international competition.

This presents a wicked dilemma for any government. If you want the cheapest, fastest route to decarbonising your economy then let Chinese solar panels and EVs flood your market. This also would help cut inflation even as it lays waste to domestic industries and increases carbon emissions in China.

If, however, you want a piece of the burgeoning green manufacturing market and would like to stay in office, then block Chinese goods with prohibitive tariffs and try to build a local industry behind the flood walls. This will create some jobs but it will deliver more expensive and probably inferior products. That will drive inflation up and slow down the reduction in domestic emissions.


"This presents a wicked dilemma for any government".

Indeed - the WTO neoliberal, free trade system won't work in a climate challenged world.
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