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One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power (Read 2746 times)
freediver
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #15 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 5:49pm
 
Quote:
And the CSIRO NextGen report specifically excludes them.


That's nice dear. Did anyone else here even mention that report?

Quote:
The cost of storage and the cost of transmission etc have to be both added. Not one or the other.


Duh. I did not say otherwise. Would you like to address anything I actually said?

Quote:
Transmission from solar farms and Wind turbine farm farms tend to be remote, Distributed from remote areas is not cheap.


The LCOE includes the grid connection.
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2026 at 5:54pm by freediver »  

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Armchair_Politician
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #16 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 6:40pm
 
whiteknight wrote on Oct 4th, 2026 at 10:07am:
We don't want nuclear power in Australia.   Sad


You're right - we NEED it.
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #17 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:08pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 5:49pm:
That's nice dear. Did anyone else here even mention that report?


So which report, if any, has specified what those subsidies are? Or are you just bloviating? Cool

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 5:49pm:
Duh. I did not say otherwise.


No you didn't. You just left them as separate components. Roll Eyes

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 5:49pm:
The LCOE includes the grid connection.



It may include the inteconnection which is not the same as transmission lines. Roll Eyes

From AI: Sometimes. Standard LCOE often includes the plant’s own interconnection equipment, but usually excludes broader transmission upgrades and grid-system costs, such as balancing or backup capacity. What counts depends on the study’s cost boundary and assumptions.
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freediver
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #18 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:30pm
 
Quote:
So which report, if any, has specified what those subsidies are? Or are you just bloviating?


Read the references at the bottom of the wikipedia page. I am not going to read them for you. If you have something to prove, then prove it, rather than bloviating.

Quote:
You just left them as separate components.


Oh dear. Leaving separate comments separated. Were you mislead? Or just terribly confused?

Renewables are cheaper than coal and nuclear. They have been for some time. In fact, renewables have cost less than one third the cost of nuclear for a decade. And they always will be, because their cost is going down and the cost of coal and nuclear is going up. No amount of bloviating on your part and demanding someone else do your research is going to change that.

And One Nation has another dud policy. Lifting the ban is not going to encourage anyone to part with their hard earned money to build us a nuclear power plant. Only someone else's. Because they are already obsolete technology.
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:57pm by freediver »  

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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #19 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:38pm
 
ON will not have enough seats to recoment breakfast cerial.
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #20 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:30pm:
Read the references at the bottom of the wikipedia page.


Why not read the main text?

"Significant caution needs to be applied to use of LCOE as outputs are highly sensitive to the selection of input values.[10] The ability to interpret and compare LCOE model outputs is dependent upon the level of detailed justification provided for input values and the results of sensitivity analysis against the selection of input values.[10] For any given electricity generation technology, LCOE can vary significantly from region to region depending on factors such as the cost of fuel or availability of renewable energy resources. For LCOE to be usable for rank-ordering energy-generation alternatives, caution must be taken to calculate it in "real" terms, i.e. including adjustment for expected inflation"
LCOE is often cited as a convenient summary measure of the overall competitiveness of different generating technologies, however, it has potential limitations. Decisions about investments in energy generation technologies may need to be guided by other measures such as the levelized cost of storage (LCOS) and the levelized avoided cost of energy (LACE), in addition to the LCOE.[14]"

Also - "In particular, if the costs of matching grid energy storage are not included in projects for variable renewable energy sources such as solar and wind, they may produce electricity when it is not needed in the grid without storage. The value of this electricity may be lower than if it was produced at another time, or even negative. At the same time, variable sources can be competitive if they are available to produce when demand and prices are highest, such as solar during summertime mid-day peaks seen in hot countries where air conditioning is a major consumer.[10]"

Hint: that's what renewables do, they price themselves out of the market when costs and income don't align. It's called gaming the system.

Also - "Response to the LCOE ignoring intermittency of most renewable sources has been proposed in System LCOE[16] and Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity (LFSCOE) metrics, which factor in the cost of required grid energy storage or redundant dispatchable power plants for balancing demand during intermitency periods.[15]"
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:30pm:
Renewables are cheaper than coal and nuclear.


You really do need to read what they say. and what they don't. Roll Eyes


Not when all the costs are added together.

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:30pm:
Leaving separate comments separated. Were you mislead?


Because the costs are additive, and you don't address that at all. Roll Eyes

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freediver
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #21 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:59pm
 
Quote:
Also - "Response to the LCOE ignoring intermittency of most renewable sources has been proposed in System LCOE[16] and Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity (LFSCOE) metrics, which factor in the cost of required grid energy storage or redundant dispatchable power plants for balancing demand during intermitency periods.[15]"


And it still comes out cheaper than nuclear. And the gap is still widening every year that you bloviate on this. But thanks for getting out the crayons for us.
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #22 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 8:44pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:59pm:
And it still comes out cheaper than nuclear.


How about you show your workings. Wink

From AI: The figures I gave earlier—$34/MWh for wind and $43/MWh for solar versus $56–$87/MWh for new nuclear—aren’t a valid full-cost comparison. The OECD figures I referenced specifically excluded system costs for wind and solar, so they can’t establish that renewables are cheaper overall than nuclear.


BTW- Only one of the references which you directed me to covered the Levelised Full Cost of Electricity. The majority is behind a paywall.

"Levelized Costs of Electricity ignore the cost of intermittency of renewables.
•
Including storage to balance them increases the costs of variable renewables.
•
Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity include the cost of balancing.
•
Combining wind and solar with a firm resource reduces costs significantly."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544222018035
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2026 at 8:55pm by lee »  
 
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #23 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:06pm
 

Instead of going nuclear -
some say that we could use large solar panel installations and pumped hydro
to store the energy.

For pumped hydro storage you could have a facility close to the ocean
and pump seawater up to a reservoir and then let it run through turbines
back down to the ocean to recover the energy.

However that would require a massive solar panel installation
and a large reservoir close to the ocean which would
take away the best land that we use for farming.
Is there any easier way?
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freediver
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #24 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:15pm
 
Quote:
How about you show your workings.


I don't need to do my own workings. It only takes half a brain and 5 seconds on google. Have you already forgotten the last time we had the same discussion?

Renewables have cost less than one third the price of nuclear for a decade now. And the gap will only get wider. They are still far cheaper when you throw in the cost of grid storage. And they actually reduce the cost of energy transmission infrastructure. Only a moron (or One Nation and the LNP) would choose now to take the leap into nuclear.
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #25 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:19pm
 

Should we at least have a few nuclear reactors?
France likes them:


AI Overview

France plans to use nuclear energy as a long-term mainstay of its energy system well into the future, with official policy targeting net-zero carbon emissions by 2050.


• 2026–2035 Strategy:
Under the third Multiannual Energy Programme (PPE3) approved in February 2026, France is actively extending the operating lives of its existing nuclear fleet (beyond 50 to 60 years) and building new reactors.


• New Reactors:
The government plans to construct six new EPR2 reactors with the first expected online by 2035, and it has considered plans for an additional eight reactors.


• Fossil Fuel Phase-Out:
Nuclear power provides roughly 65% to 70% of France's domestic electricity, and the country relies on it as the core pillar to phase out fossil fuels entirely by 2050.


• Global Standing:
France operates the largest nuclear reactor fleet in Europe (57 operable reactors) and is tracked via the World Nuclear Association as a primary global producer.

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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #26 - Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:46pm
 
lee wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 8:44pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 7:59pm:
And it still comes out cheaper than nuclear.


How about you show your workings. Wink

From AI: The figures I gave earlier—$34/MWh for wind and $43/MWh for solar versus $56–$87/MWh for new nuclear—aren’t a valid full-cost comparison. The OECD figures I referenced specifically excluded system costs for wind and solar, so they can’t establish that renewables are cheaper overall than nuclear.


BTW- Only one of the references which you directed me to covered the Levelised Full Cost of Electricity. The majority is behind a paywall.

"Levelized Costs of Electricity ignore the cost of intermittency of renewables.
•
Including storage to balance them increases the costs of variable renewables.
•
Levelized Full System Costs of Electricity include the cost of balancing.
•
Combining wind and solar with a firm resource reduces costs significantly."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360544222018035


Quote:
Including storage to balance them increases the costs of variable renewables.


Do you have a nuclear model that includes the costs of storing or processing the nuclear waste for a few hundred thousand years ? They all seem to forget to mention that part.
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freediver
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #27 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 6:55am
 
Quote:
Should we at least have a few nuclear reactors?


It's not something you want to do a small amount of. There are a lot of fairly fixed overheads with managing safety, nuclear waste etc.
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #28 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 12:16pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:46pm:
Do you have a nuclear model that includes the costs of storing or processing the nuclear waste for a few hundred thousand years ? They all seem to forget to mention that part.


Have you not heard? Once a fuel rod has been "used" it is not dead, it only loses about 3-4%. It can be reprocessed. How many existing fuel rods do you reckon there are already? Roll Eyes
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lee
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Re: One Nation Would Lift The Ban On Nuclear Power
Reply #29 - Oct 10th, 2026 at 12:21pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:15pm:
I don't need to do my own workings. It only takes half a brain and 5 seconds on google.


Then those googles you have done must have given you the figures for you to proclaim it. Cool

freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2026 at 9:15pm:
Renewables have cost less than one third the price of nuclear for a decade now. And the gap will only get wider.



And still you can't provide figures that show that renewables are cheaper under LFCOE. Roll Eyes

You keep trying and failing.

My research shows that they can't prove cheaper because too many costs are hidden.
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