Australian Politics Forum - Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%

freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #75 - May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #76 - May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #77 - May 19^th, 2026 at 12:08pm

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

I'm not sure FD can either.

Why would Unions want to cause unemployment?

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #78 - May 19^th, 2026 at 12:13pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 12:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

I'm not sure FD can either.

Why would Unions want to cause unemployment?

FD is forgiven

namaste

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freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #79 - May 19^th, 2026 at 12:45pm

greggerypeccary wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 12:08pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

I'm not sure FD can either.

Why would Unions want to cause unemployment?

I am not saying they want to. I am saying they do. They are either too stupid to realise, or just don't care.

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freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #80 - May 19^th, 2026 at 12:46pm

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

What is your point in going on about Philips?

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #81 - May 19^th, 2026 at 1:08pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 12:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

What is your point in going on about Philips?

I already answered you in reply 20:

If you read my posts I have provided proof that it is high taxes from Govts.
and relentless unfair practices of companies retrenching and ruining
even good profit making parts of their own businesses that are the real culprits -

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freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #82 - May 19^th, 2026 at 1:43pm

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 1:08pm:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 12:46pm:

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 11:59am:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 7:41am:

Quote:

No - many of the Philips places were closed down and moved overseas
so local people all lost their jobs.

They did some manufacturing in Australia, but only because of import tariffs.

Nothing to do with unions.

If you caused 1000 people to lost their jobs, would that be OK so long as you could find someone else who caused 2000 people to lose their jobs? And not just OK, but it magically transforms into a service you can charge for and for which you should be hailed as a hero? Because that seems to be what you are getting at with trying to use what happened at Philips to defend unions.

I can't follow your convoluted question. Undecided

What is your point in going on about Philips?

I already answered you in reply 20:

If you read my posts I have provided proof that it is high taxes from Govts.
and relentless unfair practices of companies retrenching and ruining
even good profit making parts of their own businesses that are the real culprits -

If you label company mismanagement as the "real" culprit, does that somehow magically mean that unions do not cause unemployment, or that the unemployment they cause is a good thing?

If not, why is it relevant to unions? Or were you just trying to change the subject? Or is it just union propaganda that has no real meaning at all, other than to make people feel less stupid for giving their money to unions?

Also, you were unable to quantify the causes of unemployment in any way, and company mismanagement typically means that the jobs move to another company, rather than disappearing. Does that mean that rather than being the "real" cause, company mismanagement is merely a convenient cause for you to blame or change the subject with, or whatever the point is that you are trying to make?

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #83 - May 19^th, 2026 at 1:54pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 1:43pm:

If you label company mismanagement as the "real" culprit, does that somehow magically mean that unions do not cause unemployment, or that the unemployment they cause is a good thing?

If not, why is it relevant to unions? Or were you just trying to change the subject? Or is it just union propaganda that has no real meaning at all?

Also, you were unable to quantify the causes of unemployment in any way, and company mismanagement typically means that the jobs move to another company, rather than disappearing. Does that mean that rather than being the "real" cause, company mismanagement is merely a convenient cause for you to blame or change the subject with, or whatever the point is that you are trying to make?

We don't know why Philips closed its Clarinda Road factory in Clayton, Melbourne in 1991
with the loss of 240 jobs - including everyone from factory workers to design engineers -
there is nothing on Google about it that I can find now.
I do remember it though - as someone I know lost their job there.

There could have been 3 possible reasons:
high Govt. taxes,
company mismanagement or
union problems.

Maybe it was all three?

I do know that they moved their entire factory overseas -
I think it went to either Malaysia or Indonesia.

It seems to be all part of a de-industrialization of Australia and particularly Melbourne -
which used to be a giant factory back in the 1970s -

by the year 2000 most factories had been dismantled and shipped overseas.

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freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #84 - May 19^th, 2026 at 2:35pm

Quote:

There could have been 3 possible reasons:
high Govt. taxes,
company mismanagement or
union problems.

Maybe it was all three?

Maybe it was an end to the tariffs that motivated them to manufacture in Australia to begin with.

I still don't see what your point is or why you think this is relevant to unions. You are going round in circles Bobby. Is this just meaningless union propaganda to make people feel less stupid for handing over their money to unions? Or is there a rational argument buried somewhere in your posts?

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #85 - May 19^th, 2026 at 3:08pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 2:35pm:

Quote:

There could have been 3 possible reasons:
high Govt. taxes,
company mismanagement or
union problems.

Maybe it was all three?

Maybe it was an end to the tariffs that motivated them to manufacture in Australia to begin with.

I still don't see what your point is or why you think this is relevant to unions. You are going round in circles Bobby. Is this just meaningless union propaganda to make people feel less stupid for handing over their money to unions? Or is there a rational argument buried somewhere in your posts?

Dear FD,
many blessings.

You are like a horse with blinkers that can't see the full picture.
I am trying to give you a global look at the problem -
not just easily blaming unions for everything.

When the Victorian Govt says we welcome your business in Melbourne -
just remember you'll have to pay at least 20 different taxes for the privilege including:
payroll tax, land taxes and GST amongst about 20 other taxes.
Don't forget the enormous cost of gas and electricity in Australia.

Is it any wonder they close down business here and move it to cheaper locations?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53075 At my desk.	Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6% Reply #86 - May 19^th, 2026 at 3:10pm Quote: not just easily blaming unions for everything I am not blaming unions for everything Bobby. Saying that unions cause unemployment is a simple statement of fact. If you think I am saying they cause ALL unemployment, you have misunderstood. Is that what this is about?
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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #87 - May 19^th, 2026 at 3:14pm

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 3:10pm:

Quote:

not just easily blaming unions for everything

I am not blaming unions for everything Bobby. Saying that unions cause unemployment is a simple statement of fact. If you think I am saying they cause ALL unemployment, you have misunderstood. Is that what this is about?

Yes - you sound like you're blaming unions for everything. Undecided

Would it be wrong for a union official to enter a worksite if an unsafe condition was reported?

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Bobby.

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #88 - May 19^th, 2026 at 3:31pm

I can add this amusing story.

I was on a Jumbo jet from the UK back to Melbourne and we stopped in Singapore.
A Chinese businessman from Singapore sat in the seat beside me on the journey to Melbourne.
I had a quite a good conversation with him.
He had a business looking briefcase with him.
I said -
are you going to do some business in Melbourne?

He said
Quote:

oh no -
I bought my mother a house in Melbourne and my kids
are going to university in Melbourne so they stay there too.
I am just visiting them for my holidays -
I would never do business in Australia -
the taxes are too high compared to Singapore
but at least I'll make money on the house as
they are going up in value all the time.

Notice he never mentioned unions?

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freediver

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Re: Unions Increase Minimum Wage Claim To 6%
Reply #89 - May 19^th, 2026 at 5:21pm

Bobby. wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 3:14pm:

freediver wrote on May 19^th, 2026 at 3:10pm:

Quote:

not just easily blaming unions for everything

I am not blaming unions for everything Bobby. Saying that unions cause unemployment is a simple statement of fact. If you think I am saying they cause ALL unemployment, you have misunderstood. Is that what this is about?

Yes - you sound like you're blaming unions for everything. Undecided

You should focus on what I actually say Bobby, not what it "sounds like".

Unions increase unemployment.

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