Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 13
Send Topic Print
Is Israeli society addicted to war? (Read 4635 times)
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #60 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:34pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:25pm:
If you don't think that Israel setting it's own immigration policy is the root cause of the problem, why did you insist that you were telling us about the root cause of the problem when you started bitching about Jews immigrating to Israel after it declared independence?

If that is not the root cause of the problem, would you like to tell us what is? Or did you decide to start telling us what the root cause is before figuring out what the root cause is?

Well, this is a new tactic of yours... insist posts are posted twice...

This:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 2:34pm:
The root of the conflict began long before Israel became a functioning state operating by enacted laws...

It began in earnest when, after the UNSCOP partition recommendation to the UN in 1947 and before the UN vote on partition in 1948, Israel had a window of 6 months to ethnically cleanse the region before it went beyond, what became UN Resolution 181, and declared independence, intending to seize land well beyond the partition boundaries... and it took to the task with zeal, removing as many Arabs as possible before it could be sanctioned as a state by the UN for having committed an international crime.

And, to save you researching this site for a poster's old opinion, ethnic cleansing does not count as an internationally recognised immigration policy.

Arabs and Muslims alike saw common cause in this overlap of historical fact and possession by religious tradition...

For their part, so did Jews... The historical fact of their military victory, with their cause's justification underwritten by the religious tradition that a Bronze Age god had 'promised' the land to his Bronze Age followers.

And in a step towards atonement for centuries of guilt over the rampant persecution and murder of Jews, Europeans largely fell silent... After all, it wasn't European land that was claimed.

Even the Pope begged god for forgiveness.



Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #61 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:38pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:34pm:
[quote author=freediver link=1776000584/59#59 date=1777357516]If you don't think that Israel setting it's own immigration policy is the root cause of the problem, why did you insist that you were telling us about the root cause of the problem when you started bitching about Jews immigrating to Israel after it declared independence?

I will highlight this post so you can see it.

My focus has always been on immigration into Palestine before it became a state in 1948, when other states could no longer restrict immigration into the region.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52949
At my desk.
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #62 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:46pm
 
Quote:
and it took to the task with zeal, removing as many Arabs as possible before it could be sanctioned as a state


It did not remove as many as possible. Most of them left voluntarily when the Muslim armies approached and told all the Muslims to leave Israel, so they could slaughter the Jews and then give them all the Jews' land and possession. A lot of them also died fighting against the establishment of Israel, or fled that fighting. But a lot decided to stay, and today have more rights and freedoms, and more say in the governance of the country, than in any other middle eastern or nrth African country.

...

Quote:
My focus has always been on immigration into Palestine before it became a state in 1948


Your "focus" changes with the wind.

And why do you think that immigration is the root cause of the conflict? Is it only Jews that become the root cause of conflict by immigrating? How many wars has Australia had whose root cause is all the foreigners immigrating?

You can spew all the historical details you want. But you cannot make sense.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52949
At my desk.
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #63 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:51pm
 
Quote:
How about you think about this... why would Jews residing in Middle Eastern Muslim regions migrate to pre-1948 Palestine, another Muslim region, before they could be confident of protection by the ruling state?


Are you really incapable of figuring this one out yourself?

Just because Muslims chase you out of their country doesn't mean you can pick any country on earth to become a citizen of.
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #64 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:05pm
 
Now, a brief timeline of the root cause:

1880s-90s: Zionism is established as a Jewish movement.

Early 1900s: European Jews begin migrating to Palestine.

1922: Ze'ev Jabotinsky calls for militant Zionism.

1925: Some Zionists heed Jabotinsky's call and form so-called Revisionist Zionism.

1929: After clashes with Arabs, Revisionists become radicalised.

1933: First assassination of a Labor Zionist leader (Haim Arlosoroff) by Revisionists.

1935: Revisionists break away from the World Zionist Organisation

1937-39: Revisionists drop defensive-only military strategy and adopt an offensive military policy against Arabs.

!946-1947: Revisionist Zionists attack British Mandate and Arabs  in Palestine.

Nov 1947 – May 1948:  Following the UNSCOP partition plan, Zionist violence escalated. Its forces moved from defensive actions to offensive operations designed to secure territory, including areas designated for a future Arab state. Specific incidents, including the  Deir Yassin massacre on April 9, 1948, in which over 100 villagers were killed.

Plan Dalet (April 1948): Zionist leaders implemented Plan Dalet, a systematic military campaign to control the territory allotted to them, which resulted in the destruction of Arab villages, mass expulsions, and the seizure of homes.

Between 1945 and April 1948, Zionist paramilitary organisations -primarily the Haganah, Irgun, and Lehi (Stern Gang) - conducted a series of attacks against Arab civilians and armed groups in Mandatory Palestine, accelerating after the UN partition vote in November 1947. This period culminated in the 1948 Palestinian exodus, known as the Nakba, which saw the expulsion or flight of approximately 750,000 Palestinians.


Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #65 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:13pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:46pm:
Quote:
and it took to the task with zeal, removing as many Arabs as possible before it could be sanctioned as a state


It did not remove as many as possible. Most of them left voluntarily when the Muslim armies approached and told all the Muslims to leave Israel, so they could slaughter the Jews and then give them all the Jews' land and possession. A lot of them also died fighting against the establishment of Israel, or fled that fighting. But a lot decided to stay, and today have more rights and freedoms, and more say in the governance of the country, than in any other middle eastern or nrth African country.

[]http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/ethnic_cleansing.jpg[]

And why do you think that immigration is the root cause of the conflict? Is it only Jews that become the root cause of conflict by immigrating? How many wars has Australia had whose root cause is all the foreigners immigrating?

You can spew all the historical details you want. But you cannot make sense.

Yes, you farted that meme out before:

Of course, you haven't bothered to check who did the expelling, when and why.

I did. I will repost it.

Arab states responding to Zionist/Israeli actions in Israel and undeclared (occupied) Palestine

Egypt - 1956
Syria - 1948
Iran - 1979 (after the Iranian Revolution)
Iraq - 1950
Lebanon - 1948
Morocco - 1948 (A French and Spanish Protectorate until 1956)
Yemen - 1949 (After a coup in 1948)
Algeria - 1962
Libya - 1945 (under British and French military occupation until 1951)
Tunisia - 1956 (under France until March 1956)
Gaza - 2005 (when Israel forcibly removed Jewish settlers in Gaza)

Two year-dates feature prominently -1948 (as discussed) and 1956, the year of the Suez Canal crisis, when Britain, France and Israel allied to attempt to seize control of the Suez Canal.

Nearly all the other dates are non-Muslim Western overlords expelling Jews.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15271
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #66 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:17pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:51pm:
Quote:
How about you think about this... why would Jews residing in Middle Eastern Muslim regions migrate to pre-1948 Palestine, another Muslim region, before they could be confident of protection by the ruling state?


Are you really incapable of figuring this one out yourself?

Just because Muslims chase you out of their country doesn't mean you can pick any country on earth to become a citizen of.


Poor blind FD: the UN in it's wisdom - not - invited Jews to form a state on confiscated Muslim land, against the will of the inhabitants who were doubly outraged because Jews  are considered infidels.....

Talk about incapable of figuring something out...

It's a pity Trump is so ignorant; he has the power to implement UN res 181 today, no ifs or buts, guaranteeing security between Palestine and Israel - the whole world except the extreme Jewish Right (and what's left of Hamas militants) would be on board. 

So - a few thousand suicidal ideologues to be rounded up and imprisoned for life, allowing the ME to achieve peace accepted by everyone. 

But the OT's prophets are a vengeful lot; it's painful to read the endless blood-curdling vengence promised by 'God' .....I had the misfortune to read some Ezekiel recently.....

Sustenance for the Jewish Right, no doubt.   
Back to top
« Last Edit: Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:26pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Online


Australian Politics

Posts: 58108
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #67 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:21pm
 
There was no 'Palestinian Liberation Movement' against the Ottomans or the various Islamic caliphates before them or against the Byzantines.
Nor against Egypt in Gaza or Jordan in the WB before 1967.


The unabating bellyache is about the Jews, not foreign rule as such. It is a slap in the face of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran that the Jews re-conquered a previously Muslim-conquered and occupied area.

Once Muslim, always Muslim. That's why Muslims believe that Southern Spain, Al Aldaluse, is rightfully still  theirs.
As is Lakemba and Greenacre, insh'allah.


Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #68 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:22pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:51pm:
Quote:
How about you think about this... why would Jews residing in Middle Eastern Muslim regions migrate to pre-1948 Palestine, another Muslim region, before they could be confident of protection by the ruling state?


Are you really incapable of figuring this one out yourself?

Just because Muslims chase you out of their country doesn't mean you can pick any country on earth to become a citizen of.

I've said it before... For a politics forum owner, you're amazingly ignorant of world politics... What you think you know seems to come from memes and 30-second social media clips.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #69 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:26pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:21pm:
There was no 'Palestinian Liberation Movement' against the Ottomans or the various Islamic caliphates before them or against the Byzantines.


The unabating bellyache is about the Jews, not foreign rule as such. It is a slap in the face of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran that the Jews re-conquered a previously Muslim-conquered and occupied area.

Once Muslim, always Muslim. That's why Muslims believe that Southern Spain, Al Aldaluse, is rightfully still  theirs.
As is Lakemba and Greenacre, insh'allah.



It is via religious tradition that Jews insist gives them sovereignty over the region in perpetuity... a god from the Iron Age 'promising' land to his Iron Age followers.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #70 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:36pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 4:51pm:
Quote:
How about you think about this... why would Jews residing in Middle Eastern Muslim regions migrate to pre-1948 Palestine, another Muslim region, before they could be confident of protection by the ruling state?


Are you really incapable of figuring this one out yourself?

Just because Muslims chase you out of their country doesn't mean you can pick any country on earth to become a citizen of.

Almost no Muslim country expelled Jews before 1948.

And most of those that did were occupied/ruled at the time by imperial powers like Britain and France.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52949
At my desk.
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #71 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:36pm
 
You have completely detached from reality Meister. None of your arguments or "root causes" stand up to inspection. They all disappear in a puff of long winded hot air. Now you don't even have the balls to say what your "root cause" is. Just hint at it, because you are afraid to admit that you think being Jewish is all the explanation that is needed. Every good thing the Jews have done gets attributed to you by foreign, non-Jewish pressure on the Jews. At the same time, you can make up any Nazi-esque conspiracy you want about the Jews, and it does not need to reflect reality, because again you can put that down to foreign non-Jewish intervention, or a simple lack of ability of the Jews to do whatever "real agenda" you project on them - despite fighting off multi-nation armies from the outset.

The reality is that they have created a wealthy, liberal democracy in one of the most backwards and oppressive places on earth. They did this straight after the holocaust, and while middle eastern and north african countries were having their own final solution, and while neighbouring Arab Mulim nations were trying to slaughter them. They granted local Arab Muslims more rights and freedoms, and more say in the governance of the country, than any other middle eastern or north african country. This is the reality. This is the fruit that tells you the true nature of the tree.

Meanwhile, not only are the actions of Muslims consistent with Islam as the root cause, their words are too. Even when Aussie Muslim converts with no grievance or link to the area come on here and explain to you in plain English why they support ongoing war and that Islam is their motivation, you insist that is somehow not even evidence. But again, you didn't have the balls to follow through with that one. Your ability to filter out overwhelming evidence to suit your hatred of Jews is phenomenal.

...

Why is it that only Jews become the "root cause" of efforts to wipe them out by doing that same thing that millions of others have done?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
MeisterEckhart
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 17023
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #72 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:45pm
 
freediver wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:36pm:
[]http://www.ozpolitic.com/album/forum-attachments/ethnic_cleansing.jpg[]

Why is it that only Jews become the "root cause" of efforts to wipe them out by doing that same thing that millions of others have done?

Do you think farting out the same meme without bothering to check who did the expelling, when and why helps your argument?

It helps mine.

Arab states responding to Zionist/Israeli actions in Israel and undeclared (occupied) Palestine

Egypt - 1956
Syria - 1948
Iran - 1979 (after the Iranian Revolution)
Iraq - 1950
Lebanon - 1948
Morocco - 1948 (A French and Spanish Protectorate until 1956)
Yemen - 1949 (After a coup in 1948)
Algeria - 1962
Libya - 1945 (under British and French military occupation until 1951)
Tunisia - 1956 (under France until March 1956)
Gaza - 2005 (when Israel forcibly removed Jewish settlers in Gaza)

Two year-dates feature prominently -1948 (as discussed) and 1956, the year of the Suez Canal crisis, when Britain, France and Israel allied to attempt to seize control of the Suez Canal.

Nearly all the other dates are non-Muslim Western overlords expelling Jews.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
freediver
Gold Member
*****
Offline


www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52949
At my desk.
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #73 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:49pm
 
I'll help you out Meister. This is what being open and honest about what you think the root cause is looks like:

The root cause is Islam.

One the other hand, waffling on about how the root cause can be traced back to various historical details while you tiptoe around the fact that them being Jewish is the only cohesive part of your story, with all the grace of a sumo wrestler in a tutu trying to be a ballerina - is not honesty. It is transparent BS.

6 pages in, and you still don't have the balls to get to the point. What are you afraid of?
Back to top
 

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
WWW  
IP Logged
 
thegreatdivide
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15271
Gender: male
Re: Is Israeli society addicted to war?
Reply #74 - Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:57pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 28th, 2026 at 5:21pm:
There was no 'Palestinian Liberation Movement' against the Ottomans or the various Islamic caliphates before them or against the Byzantines.
Nor against Egypt in Gaza or Jordan in the WB before 1967.


The unabating bellyache is about the Jews, not foreign rule as such. It is a slap in the face of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran that the Jews re-conquered a previously Muslim-conquered and occupied area.

Once Muslim, always Muslim. That's why Muslims believe that Southern Spain, Al Aldaluse, is rightfully still  theirs.
As is Lakemba and Greenacre, insh'allah.


Easy to identify your errors as usual.


1. Palestine was part of the Ottoman empire, the last islamic empire since the conquest of Byzantine Palistina by the Arabs at the beginning of the Muslim global conquest. 

Palestinians had no need of a 'Palestinian Liberation Movement', even if they didn't like their Ottoman overlords. 

(Re Lawrences's promises to the Arabs:

(google)

"T.E. Lawrence ("Lawrence of Arabia") did not personally promise Palestine to the Arabs, but he acted as an agent for the British government, which made ambiguous and conflicting promises. While encouraging the Arab Revolt, Lawrence intended for Arab independence, but Palestine was later excluded from this arrangement to satisfy British and Zionist interests.

2. The bellyache is about infidel Jews forcefully occupying Palestine, when the UN had no capacity to ensure security between Israel and Palestine.

3. The Jews in Byzantine Palistina welcomed the Arab conquest because they hated  oppressive Byzantine rule.

4. 'Once Israel always Israel?...even after 2 millennia?   

Spain of course was reconquered  by Christians - which Muslims have accepted without ongoing "terrorism" to restore Spain for islam ; whereas Israel was merely proclaimned by the UN, beginning the endless war.

We need an intelligent US administration to finally end the war, by implemeting UN res 181; most of the Arab world would welcome it after the chaos of the last 80 years.   
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 5 6 7 ... 13
Send Topic Print