Australian Politics Forum - Petrol could hit $3 per litre

Melanias purse Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 101356	Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre Reply #120 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:39pm freediver wrote on Mar 8^th, 2026 at 8:44pm: Are you trying to say you don't know how to interpret numbers, but you can manage slogans? SEND THEM BACK !!!
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aquascoot Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 37511 Gender:	Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre Reply #121 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:41pm freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 10:47am: Reality check: Wind and solar already cost less than half the price of coal power, and a third that of nuclear. And the gap is rapidly widening. Even with storage it is still cheaper. What storage
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lee

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #122 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:06pm

Melanias purse wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:33pm:

When all along, territories and states like the ACT and South Australia have been quietly getting on with the job, using the sun and the wind, just as God wills it

yet another "wrong" answer.

The only reason the ACT boats about being fully renewable is because it buys "green credits", although they may not be necessarily green. Wink

The only reason for SA is because they have the interconnector from Victoria. and that is a mix of all energy types. Brown coal included. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #123 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:18pm

aquascoot wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 10:47am:

Reality check: Wind and solar already cost less than half the price of coal power, and a third that of nuclear. And the gap is rapidly widening. Even with storage it is still cheaper.

What storage Roll Eyes

Pumped hydro is cheapest for long term energy storage (or better yet, just save the conventional hydro for peak demand). Lithium batteries are the cheapest for short term storage (ie, daily cycles). It is even cheaper if you use both systems in combination, running hydro for longer periods (eg a week) and charging batteries from that to cope with intra-day demand fluctuations.

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lee

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #124 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:42pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:18pm:

Pumped hydro is cheapest for long term energy storage (or better yet, just save the conventional hydro for peak demand).

At how many billion dollars? Snowy 2.0 is slated for 350MWh. East coast electricity consumption is about 225GWh pa, 225x10³/365 days= about 616MWh, so enough for 1.76 days. Cheap innit. Roll Eyes

So how much more hydro at what cost for running hydro for a week? The cost for Snowy2 is now $20 billion.

Charging batteries for intraday fluctuations? Not happening in a dunkelflate. Roll Eyes

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Daves2017

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #125 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:10pm

Just had to wait over 30 minutes in line at a regional QLD petrol station as it appeared that the entire town and out laying farmland was trying to purchase petrol.
I paid $2.49 a litre for ulp 91. Diesel was nudging $3.

I remarked to the lady at the counter she must be run off her feet and she agreed but said it will be only a day or so before they run dry and she will be out of work.

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freediver

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #126 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:42pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:18pm:

Pumped hydro is cheapest for long term energy storage (or better yet, just save the conventional hydro for peak demand).

At how many billion dollars? Snowy 2.0 is slated for 350MWh. East coast electricity consumption is about 225GWh pa, 225x10³/365 days= about 616MWh, so enough for 1.76 days. Cheap innit. Roll Eyes

So how much more hydro at what cost for running hydro for a week? The cost for Snowy2 is now $20 billion.

Tasmania has the cheapest electricity in Australia - because hydro is so cheap. We are adding a second trunk connection from Tasmania to the east coast grid. And it is even better than storage.

Quote:

Charging batteries for intraday fluctuations? Not happening in a dunkelflate. Roll Eyes

You did not understand the point - that you can charge batteries from stored hydro power. So yes, you can do that. That was pretty much the whole point of my explanation, and it went right over your had, because you do not want to understand. No only can you do it, but it works out cheaper than stored hydro or lithium batteries used in isolation. Instead of me explaining the same thing over and over again just go back and read what I wrote the first time.

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lee

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #127 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:03pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm:

Tasmania has the cheapest electricity in Australia - because hydro is so cheap.

It is so cheap that Tasmania hasn't built any new ones.

The Cethana pumped storage hasn't been approved and no costings on how "cheap" it will be.

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm:

And it is even better than storage.

See above.

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm:

You did not understand the point - that you can charge batteries from stored hydro power.

But Snowy2 has explicitly said they will not do that.

"It will provide flexible, on-demand power while reusing or ‘recycling’ the water in a closed loop and maximise the efficiency of renewables by using excess solar and wind energy to pump water to the higher dam, to be stored for later use."

But then of course if they did do that. that is electricity not available to the grid out of that 1.76 days. Roll Eyes

https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/snowy-20/about/

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm:

Instead of me explaining the same thing over and over again just go back and read what I wrote the first time.

i have explained the above point before, and you still don't understand it. Roll Eyes

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20146 Gender:	Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre Reply #128 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:05pm *
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Melanias purse

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #129 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:31pm

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:06pm:

Melanias purse wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:33pm:

When all along, territories and states like the ACT and South Australia have been quietly getting on with the job, using the sun and the wind, just as God wills it

yet another "wrong" answer.

The only reason the ACT boats about being fully renewable is because it buys "green credits", although they may not be necessarily green. Wink

The only reason for SA is because they have the interconnector from Victoria. and that is a mix of all energy types. Brown coal included. Roll Eyes

The ACT is powered by 100% renewable energy, dear.

South Australia is currently at 72%, as per our previously-posted evidence.

So no, not "wrong", categorically proven. No matter how many lies you try, you can't possibly win.

How does it feeeeeel?

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Melanias purse

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #130 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:34pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 2:28pm:

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:42pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:18pm:

Pumped hydro is cheapest for long term energy storage (or better yet, just save the conventional hydro for peak demand).

At how many billion dollars? Snowy 2.0 is slated for 350MWh. East coast electricity consumption is about 225GWh pa, 225x10³/365 days= about 616MWh, so enough for 1.76 days. Cheap innit. Roll Eyes

So how much more hydro at what cost for running hydro for a week? The cost for Snowy2 is now $20 billion.

Tasmania has the cheapest electricity in Australia - because hydro is so cheap. We are adding a second trunk connection from Tasmania to the east coast grid. And it is even better than storage.

aquascoot wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:41pm:

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 10:47am:

Reality check: Wind and solar already cost less than half the price of coal power, and a third that of nuclear. And the gap is rapidly widening. Even with storage it is still cheaper.

What storage Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #131 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:54pm

Melanias purse wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:31pm:

The ACT is powered by 100% renewable energy, dear.

So what you are saying is that the ACT is NOT connected to the east coast grid. Roll Eyes

"The National Electricity Market (NEM) is comprised of five physically connected regions on the east coast of Australia:

Queensland
New South Wales (which includes the ACT)
Victoria
Tasmania
South Australia"

https://www.aemc.gov.au/energy-system/electricity/electricity-system/NEM

"Electricity prices in the Canberra, ACT have been volatile, with costs rising in recent years despite strong renewable generation."

https://www.solarchoice.net.au/energy/electricity-rebates/act/

Nothing there about 100% renewables.

"Some electricity accounting methodologies, such as the market-based method used by Climate Active, recognise the proportion of the ACT Government's commitment that has been matched with the ACT Government’s surrender of renewable energy certificates. This is termed the Jurisdictional Renewable Power Percentage (JRPP) and in 2024 this was 79.51%. The JRPP for 2025 has yet not been released."

https://www.greenpower.gov.au/get-greenpower/buying-greenpower-australian-capita...

Nor there.

"When you add a Greenchoice fee to your electricity bill, you contribute to the purchase of renewable electricity from government-accredited sources, including wind power, biomass, hydro and solar."

https://www.actewagl.com.au/sustainability/greenchoice

Nor there.

So perhaps you can tell us how they switch off the fossil fuelled part of the grid. Just too dumb to do your own research. Roll Eyes

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freediver

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #132 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:59pm

Quote:

It is so cheap that Tasmania hasn't built any new ones.

Exactly. Low prices indicate an oversupply. They kind of went overboard a while back when every premier wanted a dam named after him.

Quote:

But Snowy2 has explicitly said they will not do that.

Duh. How can it use hydro to power lithium batteries if there are no lithium batteries as part of the project?

But there is nothing stopping anyone else with connected lithium battery storage from using it on an intra-day basis while snowy 2 is running. Welcome to the wonders of the free market.

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aquascoot

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #133 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 4:01pm

Melanias purse wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:31pm:

lee wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 1:06pm:

Melanias purse wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 12:33pm:

When all along, territories and states like the ACT and South Australia have been quietly getting on with the job, using the sun and the wind, just as God wills it

yet another "wrong" answer.

The only reason the ACT boats about being fully renewable is because it buys "green credits", although they may not be necessarily green. Wink

The only reason for SA is because they have the interconnector from Victoria. and that is a mix of all energy types. Brown coal included. Roll Eyes

The ACT is powered by 100% renewable energy, dear.

South Australia is currently at 72%, as per our previously-posted evidence.

So no, not "wrong", categorically proven. No matter how many lies you try, you can't possibly win.

How does it feeeeeel?

An accounting trick.

The ACT is connected to the National Electricity Market (NEM) with NSW, QLD, VIC, SA, and TAS.
That means:
Electricity in the wires is the general grid mix (coal, gas, hydro, wind, solar).
At any given moment, the power used in Canberra might come from coal or gas plants elsewhere. �
ABC News
The ACT’s renewable generators are often located in other states and feed power into the same grid. �
ABC News
Think of it like this:
The grid is a big pool of electricity.
The ACT pays to put in as much renewable energy as it takes out, but the electrons themselves mix.

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lee

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Re: Petrol could hit $3 per litre
Reply #134 - Mar 9^th, 2026 at 4:04pm

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:59pm:

Low prices indicate an oversupply. They kind of went overboard a while back when every premier wanted a dam named after him.

So overboard they had to import.

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:59pm:

Duh. How can it use hydro to power lithium batteries if there are no lithium batteries as part of the project?

Nothing to do with solar and wind. Wink

freediver wrote on Mar 9^th, 2026 at 3:59pm:

But there is nothing stopping anyone else with connected lithium battery storage from using it on an intra-day basis while snowy 2 is running.

Ah adding another layer of electricity use into the mix. Down, down the projected take off goes up means the amount of supply goes down. Roll Eyes

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