Australian Politics Forum - Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #30 - Yesterday at 11:49am

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:28am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 11:17am:

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:10am:

Great work shifting the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Now that was a perfect deck chair shift... you try hard ...

Anyway - I forgot to add they need to push for reliable power etc as well.

You see - it does't matter what they did in the past - in your eyes - what matters is what they are going to do for the future.

Smart people wait for that ..... instead of just being negative all the time...

They need to earn trust before they're entitled to it.

At least Labor are actually delivering on the platform people voted for.

That's a far cry from standing on the eve of an election and solemnly swearing "no cuts to education, no cuts to health, no changes to pensions, no changes to the GST, and no cuts to the ABC or SBS", winning office, and then doing every single one of those things anyway.

When a party can't even maintain consistency in opposition, let alone keep its own internal discipline, it's going to take more than recycled slogans and selective amnesia to win back the trust of people who lost it.

You've never wavered, evidence be damned, and that's your prerogative. You have just as much right to support them as anyone else.

I just hope that when the pendulum inevitably swings back, they've actually got their house in order and are prepared to honour what they put to the electorate.

If they can manage that, then at least the disagreement is genuinely political. You can argue over policy, priorities, and ideology, which is exactly what a functioning democracy requires.

But that remains a very big if.

As usual - your biggest hindrance in discussion is your assumption that others support the things they discuss - I often discuss the actualities of Nazism here and the parallels with today and weak government - but that does not mean I support Nazism.

You have that half-baked schoolyard idea of discussing issues that dictates to you that everyone must be either for or against.... clearly you do not understand discussion, but live in a world filled with confrontation. That US or THEM silliness is what gets people mass murdered in the U.S. .... infantile extremist thinking, the best representation of which would be idiots chanting 'from the river to the sea' and advocating genocide without one single thought of the reality they are pushing ....

I don't think Taylor is the goods - let's see how it pans out in the real world first, eh? As things stand - with Albo so weak etc, One Nation will continue to gain ground....

Let's see if you think that means I support One Nation now.... DUH ...

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #31 - Yesterday at 11:59am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 11:49am:

As usual - your biggest hindrance in discussion is your assumption that others support the things they discuss - I often discuss the actualities of Nazism here and the parallels with today and weak government - but that does not mean I support Nazism.

You have that half-baked schoolyard idea of discussing issues that dictates to you that everyone must be either for or against.... clearly you do not understand discussion, but live in a world filled with confrontation. That US or THEM silliness is what gets people mass murdered in the U.S. .... infantile extremist thinking, the best representation of which would be idiots chanting 'from the river to the sea' and advocating genocide without one single thought of the reality they are pushing ....

I don't think Taylor is the goods - let's see how it pans out in the real world first, eh? As things stand - with Albo so weak etc, One Nation will continue to gain ground....

Let's see if you think that means I support One Nation now.... DUH ...

You're arguing with something I didn't say, and defending yourself against an accusation I never made.

At no point did I claim you support the Liberals, One Nation, or any other party. What I criticised was the idea that past behaviour somehow becomes irrelevant just because a new slogan is rolled out about the future. That's not "US vs THEM" thinking, it's basic accountability.

Pointing out that trust has to be earned is not tribalism. It's the opposite. It's recognising that credibility is built on record, consistency, and follow-through, not vibes and hopeful waiting. Dismissing that as "negativity" is just a way of avoiding the substance of the argument.

Dragging in Nazism, mass murder, or genocide slogans doesn't strengthen your case, it weakens it. If a discussion about political trust immediately feels like a personal indictment, that suggests a sensitivity problem on your end.

I even explicitly said people are entitled to support whoever they like, and that genuine disagreement over policy is healthy when parties actually honour what they take to an election. That's not confrontation, that's democracy functioning as intended.

If you think Taylor is the goods, fine. If you want to wait and see how it pans out, also fine. But don't rewrite my position into some cartoonish accusation just so you can argue against it.

Criticism of political records is not a personal attack, and scepticism is not radicalism. If that distinction feels uncomfortable, that's worth reflecting on.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 56641 Gender:	Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader Reply #32 - Yesterday at 12:04pm Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman. There was no other reason for her elevation.
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Frank

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #33 - Yesterday at 12:11pm

Frank wrote Yesterday at 12:04pm:

Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman.

There was no other reason for her elevation.

And now we have the situation where the Marrickville Mawkish, the perennial student Trot, the "I fight tories", the pwogwessive voter lisperer is the towering political giant of Australian politics.
Ludicrous.

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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #34 - Yesterday at 12:13pm

Frank wrote Yesterday at 12:04pm:

Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman.

There was no other reason for her elevation.

It's politics, of course there is.

She was never meant to take the party into the next election. She was a placeholder, the bench-warmer installed to absorb the flak while they tried to recover from a historic loss. That much was obvious to anyone paying attention.

Angus was always the intended end point from the remnants left behind. The timeline just got accelerated because the boys' club couldn't tolerate a woman holding the top job any longer, especially the NATs.

And your comment only reinforces the point. When you reduce her elevation to "because she's a woman", you're not analysing strategy, you're advertising your own prejudice, just like the boys' club.

The lens you view the world through is exactly as ugly as the conclusion you reached.

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freediver

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #35 - Yesterday at 12:13pm

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:28am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 11:17am:

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:10am:

Great work shifting the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Now that was a perfect deck chair shift... you try hard ...

Anyway - I forgot to add they need to push for reliable power etc as well.

You see - it does't matter what they did in the past - in your eyes - what matters is what they are going to do for the future.

Smart people wait for that ..... instead of just being negative all the time...

They need to earn trust before they're entitled to it.
But that remains a very big if.

Not really. They just have to wait for Labor to lose it. Labor is not exactly doing well in the polls either. And they keep doing monumentally stupid things. Like the referendum.

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Dnarever

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #36 - Yesterday at 12:20pm

Frank wrote Yesterday at 12:04pm:

Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman.

There was no other reason for her elevation.

The conservatives have been manic in their refusal to promote a woman under any circumstance, She was by far the most consistent high profile option they had. They have mearly replaced her with their next loser in line.

PIcking a woman is the last thing they would want to do, she was selected in spite of being female not because of it.

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 1:05pm by Dnarever »

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14698 Armidale Gender:	Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader Reply #37 - Yesterday at 12:24pm Libs have the Menzies Research Centre. They may do a deal with Pauline if she hands over to Barnaby and gets her name in Menzies-Hanson Centre.
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Dnarever

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #38 - Yesterday at 1:08pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:13pm:

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:28am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 11:17am:

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:10am:

Great work shifting the deck chairs around on the Titanic.

Now that was a perfect deck chair shift... you try hard ...

Anyway - I forgot to add they need to push for reliable power etc as well.

You see - it does't matter what they did in the past - in your eyes - what matters is what they are going to do for the future.

Smart people wait for that ..... instead of just being negative all the time...

They need to earn trust before they're entitled to it.
But that remains a very big if.

Not really. They just have to wait for Labor to lose it. Labor is not exactly doing well in the polls either. And they keep doing monumentally stupid things. Like the referendum.

Labor should have lost the last election the only reason they won was that the Liberals clearly offered nothing. They have only gone backwards since. We will see how this next in line nong goes but doesn't look promising for them. They have deep structural issues and deeper talent deficiencies. They have nothing to offer. Their problem isn't that they cannot offer a leader but thet they connot offer anything lined up behind a leader. They have a solid depth of nothing worth the effort.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #39 - Yesterday at 1:12pm

ProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 11:59am:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 11:49am:

As usual - your biggest hindrance in discussion is your assumption that others support the things they discuss - I often discuss the actualities of Nazism here and the parallels with today and weak government - but that does not mean I support Nazism.

You have that half-baked schoolyard idea of discussing issues that dictates to you that everyone must be either for or against.... clearly you do not understand discussion, but live in a world filled with confrontation. That US or THEM silliness is what gets people mass murdered in the U.S. .... infantile extremist thinking, the best representation of which would be idiots chanting 'from the river to the sea' and advocating genocide without one single thought of the reality they are pushing ....

I don't think Taylor is the goods - let's see how it pans out in the real world first, eh? As things stand - with Albo so weak etc, One Nation will continue to gain ground....

Let's see if you think that means I support One Nation now.... DUH ...

You're arguing with something I didn't say, and defending yourself against an accusation I never made.

At no point did I claim you support the Liberals, One Nation, or any other party. What I criticised was the idea that past behaviour somehow becomes irrelevant just because a new slogan is rolled out about the future. That's not "US vs THEM" thinking, it's basic accountability.

Pointing out that trust has to be earned is not tribalism. It's the opposite. It's recognising that credibility is built on record, consistency, and follow-through, not vibes and hopeful waiting. Dismissing that as "negativity" is just a way of avoiding the substance of the argument.

Dragging in Nazism, mass murder, or genocide slogans doesn't strengthen your case, it weakens it. If a discussion about political trust immediately feels like a personal indictment, that suggests a sensitivity problem on your end.

I even explicitly said people are entitled to support whoever they like, and that genuine disagreement over policy is healthy when parties actually honour what they take to an election. That's not confrontation, that's democracy functioning as intended.

If you think Taylor is the goods, fine. If you want to wait and see how it pans out, also fine. But don't rewrite my position into some cartoonish accusation just so you can argue against it.

Criticism of political records is not a personal attack, and scepticism is not radicalism. If that distinction feels uncomfortable, that's worth reflecting on.

"You've never wavered, evidence be damned, and that's your prerogative. You have just as much right to support them as anyone else."

Playing weasel words now, are we? Oh - no ... I didn't mean you are supporting them etc - I just said you had the same right as anyone else to support them .... and even though I said "You've never wavered, evidence be damned" - that doesn't mean I'm saying you support them .. it just means... oh... whatever I think it does...

Do you ever actually think anything through? Or is it your grasp on the English language that fails you?

Schoolyard sheila.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #40 - Yesterday at 1:16pm

Dnarever wrote Yesterday at 1:08pm:

Labor should have lost the last election the only reason they won was that the Liberals clearly offered nothing. They have only gone backwards since. We will see how this next in line nong goes but doesn't look promising for them. They have deep structural issues and deeper talent deficiencies. They have nothing to offer. Their problem isn't that they cannot offer a leader but thet they connot offer anything lined up behind a leader. They have a solid depth of nothing worth the effort.

Cooorrrect!

The same applies to all the parties if you ask me. Labor is the worst with wet paper bag boxer Albo at the helm reaping the dollars, and a bunch of namby-pamby forced os us sheilas who think it's all sweet and easy and somehow right to be force fed on an unsuspecting and gullible public .... while Rome burns ....

They all need to go... I've posted my reasons for distrusting One Nation... straight over your heads as usual. Many here just like to play silly buggars with themselves...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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ProudKangaroo

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #41 - Yesterday at 1:16pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 1:12pm:

"You've never wavered, evidence be damned, and that's your prerogative. You have just as much right to support them as anyone else."

Playing weasel words now, are we? Oh - no ... I didn't mean you are supporting them etc - I just said you had the same right as anyone else to support them .... and even though I said "You've never wavered, evidence be damned" - that doesn't mean I'm saying you support them .. it just means... oh... whatever I think it does...

Do you ever actually think anything through? Or is it your grasp on the English language that fails you?

Schoolyard sheila.

Ah, the classic pivot-and-weasel manoeuvre. Let's unpack this, since apparently that's a foreign concept.

I didn't say you support them. I said you have the same right as anyone else to support them, a factual statement about rights, not endorsement. When I added ‘you've never wavered, evidence be damned', that's a statement about consistency of reasoning, not political allegiance.

Your attempt to turn my words into some admission or label of support is… creative, but it doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny.

If your grasp of English isn't quite up to the task of parsing meaning, perhaps you should pause before accusing others of saying things they plainly didn't.

Schoolyard logic, indeed.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #42 - Yesterday at 1:26pm

Dnarever wrote Yesterday at 12:20pm:

Frank wrote Yesterday at 12:04pm:

Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman.

There was no other reason for her elevation.

The conservatives have been manic in their refusal to promote a woman under any circumstance, She was by far the most consistent high profile option they had. They have mearly replaced her with their next loser in line.

PIcking a woman is the last thing they would want to do, she was selected in spite of being female not because of it.

They need to choose the best person for the job - not just another falcon woman force fed on us.

They certainly bring a different aspect to the table - more grift, graft, weakness and emotional insouciance and some incredible belief in the sweetness and light of the most barbaric on earth and on some dead-end feminist supremacism based on forty years of endless preference for them instead of reality ....... while the castle walls are being smashed down to bring in the barbarians......

Stupid is as stupid does.

I have no objection to having a woman in the Lodge.. Hawkie had a few there from reports.... but in all seriousness ... I'm happy to support a woman who can DO THE JOB ..... Leys foundered from day one due to her horrible history of rorting etc...nobody but the party wanted her even on the ticket.... and many party members who didn't want that were over-ridden by city hall - the power brokers.

Self-inflicted injury.

Give Jacinta Price a little more time - maybe Hastie as deputy ... he's sort of growing on me despite his failures past - more due to the senior command not really giving him the ropes to learn... Kingdom of God stuff... went out on a great crusade primed with secondment to the 'best' (a Captain SAS is the lowest commissioned rank and is really much like a 2nd Lieutenant who listens to his sergeants etc - and is on prbation very much) and found that it was really all sh

i

t and blood and chopped hands for ID when necessary.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 117056 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader Reply #43 - Yesterday at 2:03pm This is the only answer to all problems:
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Frank

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Re: Angus Taylor elected new LNP leader
Reply #44 - Yesterday at 2:16pm

uProudKangaroo wrote Yesterday at 12:13pm:

Frank wrote Yesterday at 12:04pm:

Sussan Ley - what happens when you are promoted to your level of incompetence just because you are a woman.

There was no other reason for her elevation.

It's politics, of course there is.

She was never meant to take the party into the next election. She was a placeholder, the bench-warmer installed to absorb the flak while they tried to recover from a historic loss. That much was obvious to anyone paying attention.

Angus was always the intended end point from the remnants left behind. The timeline just got accelerated because the boys' club couldn't tolerate a woman holding the top job any longer, especially the NATs.

And your comment only reinforces the point. When you reduce her elevation to "because she's a woman", you're not analysing strategy, you're advertising your own prejudice, just like the boys' club.

The lens you view the world through is exactly as ugly as the conclusion you reached.

Nonsense. Had she been competent she would still be leader. She wasn't so she isn't.

The electorate - not the 'boys' club' - didn't see her as in any way a serious counterweight to Albaweasel DESPITE his evident weakness and incompetence.

Whether Taylor has now been elevated to his level of incompetence is yet to be seen. If he proves to be just as much out of his depth as Ley then he, too, will be replaced. Politics is not primary school where all shall have prizes.

Your emotional and rhetorical incontinence is ludicrous.

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