Australian Politics Forum - al-Aqsa Mosque

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #105 - Feb 12^th, 2026 at 6:27pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:57pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:38pm:

$$Profit Muhammad rode a flying donkey to Al Aqsa despite the fact this mosque was built after he died.

Quote:

An excerpt from a translation of Sahih al-Bukhari describes Buraq:

Then a white animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me ... The animal's step (was so wide that it) reached the farthest point within the reach of the animal's sight.

— Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[11]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buraq

Every muslim believes Muhammad rode a flying donkey. i wonder how many idiots who defend Islam also believe in flying donkeys
Grin

Christians believe Jesus was born of a virgin, rose from the dead and ascended bodily into heaven, so...

What does that have to do with Al Aqsa?
Are you deflecting because you can't stay on topic?
I have no religion.

Every muslim also believe Trees and rocks will talk

Don't be a loser...

All religions have their traditions that propose obvious absurdities.

Name one that doesn't.

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 56696
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #106 - Feb 12^th, 2026 at 7:31pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 4:47pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 10:18am:

The scope of science is limited. It has nothing to say about ethical or aesthetic judgement, for example.
Some of the greatest mathematicians, Pascal, Newton, Leibnitz were acutely aware of this. See also Kan's critical volumes on reason, aesthetics and judgement.

In our time Stephen Jay Gould talks about the non-overlapping magisteriums of knolwedge: facts and values.

We know truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart, and it is in this last way that we know first principles; and reason, which has no part in it, tries in vain to impugn them.
Pascal, Pensees 282

We also know we can be mistaken when reason proves our perceptions false; and we can still feel convinced when we should know we have no reason to be, or every reason not to be.

We can act delusionally because we believe 'our luck is in'... we can act unwisely because our dander is up... we can verbalise falsehoods we naively believe is truth...

The Dunning-Kruger effect: where we all almost always greatly overestimate our own knowledge or skill when blythely applying what we imagine about our capabilities to unfamiliar tasks.

You are supporting my point: scientific, empirical, testable and reproducible knowledge is limited. It does not encompass the entirety of our lives.

Art is not scientific. Ethics is not scientific. Science itself is, by definition, incomlete.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:33am by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #107 - Feb 12^th, 2026 at 9:57pm

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 7:31pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:27pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 4:47pm:

Frank wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 10:18am:

The scope of science is limited. It has nothing to say about ethical or aesthetic judgement, for example.
Some of the greatest mathematicians, Pascal, Newton, Leibnitz were acutely aware of this. See also Kan's critical volumes on reason, aesthetics and judgement.

In our time Stephen Jay Gould talks about the non-overlapping magisteriums of knolwedge: facts and values.

We know truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart, and it is in this last way that we know first principles; and reason, which has no part in it, tries in vain to impugn them.
Pascal, Pensees 282

We also know we can be mistaken when reason proves our perceptions false; and we can still feel convinced when we should know we have no reason to be, or every reason not to be.

We can act delusionally because we believe 'our luck is in'... we can act unwisely because our dander is up... we can verbalise falsehoods we naively believe is truth...

The Dunning-Kruger effect: where we all almost always greatly overestimate our own knowledge or skill when blythely applying what we imagine about our capabilities to unfamiliar tasks.

You are supporting my point: scinetific, empirical, testable and reproducible knowledge is limited. It does not encompass the entirety of our lives.

Art is not scientific. Ethics is not scientific. Science itself is, by definition, incomlete.

That's right... Art/Literature don't yield scientific truth, at least not in the common sense... but they can reveal truths of the shared human condition and experience.

However, religious traditions are rarely, if ever, entirely based in historical truth... and, as such, it's futile to look for historical truth in their stories, or to try to join the dots from one era's religious traditions to another's, as if they were necessarily connected.

Religious traditions are based on moral/ethical ideals specific to those ethnicities and cultures that value them, in pursuit of an answer to the question, 'How should we live'?

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 56696 Gender:	Re: al-Aqsa Mosque Reply #108 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:41am History - whether religious or otherwise - is not scientific either. It's an art or knowledge, with its own Muse, Clio, one of the nine daughters of Zeus and the godess of Memory.
Back to top	Estragon: I can’t go on like this. Vladimir: That’s what you think. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52444
At my desk.

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #109 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:49am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:26pm:

Kind of ironic that Meister is so eager to point out the absurdity of religion, but holds as gospel truth that Muslims have, since Islam's founding, considered Jerusalem the site of Islam's third most holy place. With zero evidence. Just "it corresponds".

Hard to reconcile the two people.

Going for argumentum ad populum, eh!

We are talking about what people believed, so yeah.

No, you should know from your own forum advice that argumentum ad populum is about what you want people to believe.

Wow. You don't even get that either.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #110 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:01am

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:26pm:

Kind of ironic that Meister is so eager to point out the absurdity of religion, but holds as gospel truth that Muslims have, since Islam's founding, considered Jerusalem the site of Islam's third most holy place. With zero evidence. Just "it corresponds".

Hard to reconcile the two people.

Going for argumentum ad populum, eh!

We are talking about what people believed, so yeah.

No, you should know from your own forum advice that argumentum ad populum is about what you want people to believe.

Wow. You don't even get that either.

You're only 15, so... y'know... no one gets you... while you talk in riddles... stack your argument 3-deep in one breath... We all remember what it was like being 15.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #111 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:13am

Frank wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:41am:

History - whether religious or otherwise - is not scientific either. It's an art or knowledge, with its own Muse, Clio, one of the nine daughters of Zeus and the godess of Memory.

Modern historians align with verifiable facts in the way ancient historians aligned with the intended subjective/emotional effects of the narrative.

Notwithstanding that religious narrative was usually zealously defended by religious elites/ rulers/ the state.

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52444
At my desk.

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #112 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:47am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:01am:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:26pm:

Kind of ironic that Meister is so eager to point out the absurdity of religion, but holds as gospel truth that Muslims have, since Islam's founding, considered Jerusalem the site of Islam's third most holy place. With zero evidence. Just "it corresponds".

Hard to reconcile the two people.

Going for argumentum ad populum, eh!

We are talking about what people believed, so yeah.

No, you should know from your own forum advice that argumentum ad populum is about what you want people to believe.

Wow. You don't even get that either.

You're only 15, so... y'know... no one gets you... while you talk in riddles... stack your argument 3-deep in one breath... We all remember what it was like being 15.

What riddles? Are you confused about what I am asking Meister?

Can you find a single reference that identifies the site in Jerusalem as the al-Aqsa Mosque from either Muhammad himself, from someone else before Muhammad died, or from before a later leader decided to build a mosque there and claim the link?

At the time of Islam's founding, how exactly did Muslims consider the site to be one of the holiest in Islam if, despite knowing about the existence of the city, they never talked about it being a holy site, nor visited there?

Do you have no evidence to support this claim:

Quote:

The site of the al-Aqsa Mosque has been considered one of the holiest sites of Islam since Islam's founding.

other than your assertion that it "corresponds" to Mecca?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #113 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:50am

The best and most historically reliable religious text of Europe is the Nicene Creed, which recently celebrated its 1700th anniversary in 2025.

Proclaimed by Constantine to ensure Christianity was one defensible faith and one faith only, its style - determining by fiat, the 'truth', has been repeated multiple times through history, most notably by the US Declaration of Independence.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 16640
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #114 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 10:00am

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:47am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:01am:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:26pm:

Kind of ironic that Meister is so eager to point out the absurdity of religion, but holds as gospel truth that Muslims have, since Islam's founding, considered Jerusalem the site of Islam's third most holy place. With zero evidence. Just "it corresponds".

Hard to reconcile the two people.

Going for argumentum ad populum, eh!

We are talking about what people believed, so yeah.

No, you should know from your own forum advice that argumentum ad populum is about what you want people to believe.

Wow. You don't even get that either.

You're only 15, so... y'know... no one gets you... while you talk in riddles... stack your argument 3-deep in one breath... We all remember what it was like being 15.

What riddles? Are you confused about what I am asking Meister?

Can you find a single reference that identifies the site in Jerusalem as the al-Aqsa Mosque from either Muhammad himself, from someone else before Muhammad died, or from before a later leader decided to build a mosque there and claim the link?

At the time of Islam's founding, how exactly did Muslims consider the site to be one of the holiest in Islam if, despite knowing about the existence of the city, they never talked about it being a holy site, nor visited there?

Do you have no evidence to support this claim:

Quote:

The site of the al-Aqsa Mosque has been considered one of the holiest sites of Islam since Islam's founding.

other than your assertion that it "corresponds" to Mecca?

See, you can't help yourself... arrested development is permanent... lifelong.

You are not intellectually capable of discerning the difference between your misrepresentation of what I wrote and what I wrote... For you, Mecca and the Kaaba are the same, or at least you think you'll get away with your misrepresentation by conflating the two.

The Kaaba and the site of the old Jewish Temple were considered equal in holiness... The Kaaba, by religious tradition, was built by Abraham and his son Ismael. The Jewish Temples were built on the site where, by religious tradition, Abraham almost sacrificed his son, Isaac, until an angel intervened.

Jerusalem was the holy city during the time of Muhammad.

Mecca was not, or at least did not compare with Jerusalem, hence the original Muslim facing of Jerusalem in prayer.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 16640 Gender:	Re: al-Aqsa Mosque Reply #115 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 10:54am And just to cement the Abrahamic link between Judaism and Islam in religious tradition... Israel means one who struggles with God, strives with God, or God strives/rules. Ismael means God hears or God will hear. The god (el, also Allah) referring to Yahweh.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 117099
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #116 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 11:07am

FD,
Quote:

Can you find a single reference that identifies the site in Jerusalem as the al-Aqsa Mosque from either Muhammad himself, from someone else before Muhammad died, or from before a later leader decided to build a mosque there and claim the link?

At the time of Islam's founding, how exactly did Muslims consider the site to be one of the holiest in Islam if, despite knowing about the existence of the city, they never talked about it being a holy site, nor visited there?

I already explained it twice. Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15057
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #117 - Feb 13^th, 2026 at 3:39pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:38pm:

$$Profit Muhammad rode a flying donkey to Al Aqsa despite the fact this mosque was built after he died. Quote:

The Koran mentions the Ascension, the site of which was later identified as relating to the Temple Mount, hence the Dome and the Mosque built there less than 5 decades after the Prophet's death.

That's why the UN designated Jerusalem as a 'world city', in UN res 181.

Every muslim believes Muhammad rode a flying donkey. i wonder how many idiots who defend Islam also believe in flying donkeys
Grin

Not many I hope.

Now have a look at the gospel accounts regarding the Ascension of Jesus and the empty tomb.

Are you convinced?

Back to top

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 52444
At my desk.

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #118 - Feb 14^th, 2026 at 9:24am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 10:00am:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:47am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 9:01am:

freediver wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 8:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 9:11pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:36pm:

freediver wrote on Feb 11^th, 2026 at 8:26pm:

Kind of ironic that Meister is so eager to point out the absurdity of religion, but holds as gospel truth that Muslims have, since Islam's founding, considered Jerusalem the site of Islam's third most holy place. With zero evidence. Just "it corresponds".

Hard to reconcile the two people.

Going for argumentum ad populum, eh!

We are talking about what people believed, so yeah.

No, you should know from your own forum advice that argumentum ad populum is about what you want people to believe.

Wow. You don't even get that either.

You're only 15, so... y'know... no one gets you... while you talk in riddles... stack your argument 3-deep in one breath... We all remember what it was like being 15.

What riddles? Are you confused about what I am asking Meister?

Can you find a single reference that identifies the site in Jerusalem as the al-Aqsa Mosque from either Muhammad himself, from someone else before Muhammad died, or from before a later leader decided to build a mosque there and claim the link?

At the time of Islam's founding, how exactly did Muslims consider the site to be one of the holiest in Islam if, despite knowing about the existence of the city, they never talked about it being a holy site, nor visited there?

Do you have no evidence to support this claim:

Quote:

The site of the al-Aqsa Mosque has been considered one of the holiest sites of Islam since Islam's founding.

other than your assertion that it "corresponds" to Mecca?

See, you can't help yourself... arrested development is permanent... lifelong.

You are not intellectually capable of discerning the difference between your misrepresentation of what I wrote and what I wrote... For you, Mecca and the Kaaba are the same, or at least you think you'll get away with your misrepresentation by conflating the two.

The Kaaba and the site of the old Jewish Temple were considered equal in holiness... The Kaaba, by religious tradition, was built by Abraham and his son Ismael. The Jewish Temples were built on the site where, by religious tradition, Abraham almost sacrificed his son, Isaac, until an angel intervened.

Jerusalem was the holy city during the time of Muhammad.

Mecca was not, or at least did not compare with Jerusalem, hence the original Muslim facing of Jerusalem in prayer.

Where is the riddle Meister?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 117099
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: al-Aqsa Mosque
Reply #119 - Feb 14^th, 2026 at 9:30am

thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 13^th, 2026 at 3:39pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 12^th, 2026 at 5:38pm:

$$Profit Muhammad rode a flying donkey to Al Aqsa despite the fact this mosque was built after he died. Quote:

The Koran mentions the Ascension, the site of which was later identified as relating to the Temple Mount, hence the Dome and the Mosque built there less than 5 decades after the Prophet's death.

That's why the UN designated Jerusalem as a 'world city', in UN res 181.

Every muslim believes Muhammad rode a flying donkey. i wonder how many idiots who defend Islam also believe in flying donkeys
Grin

Not many I hope.

Now have a look at the gospel accounts regarding the Ascension of Jesus and the empty tomb.

Are you convinced?

Yes - how did Jesus get to heaven -

did he also fly on a horse with wings? Undecided

Back to top

IP Logged