Australian Politics Forum - What rights do you have?

freediver

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What rights do you have?
Yesterday at 8:50pm

In this thread Meister argued you can tell what rights you have by referring to the correct paperwork, not by say, referring to the reality you are faced with:

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1769497620/225

But he could not answer the simple question:

Do you believe that you have the right to do something, even if the consistent and predictable result of doing it is someone trying to kill you - because pieces of paper trump reality?

He gives several dozen "responses" to the question, but not a single answer.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #1 - Yesterday at 9:26pm

Rights are permissions to do, or protections against impositions.

They require an acknowledged authority to grant a right; an authority that commits to protecting those rights from those who would confront you when you exercise that right or impose on you where they must not.

In the myth of a state's right to exist, the myth's grantor, if not a nation-state, is usually a metaphysical being, as is the case with Israel.

That someone confronts you exercising that right is not an indication that the right doesn't exist.

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 56416 Gender:	Re: What rights do you have? Reply #2 - Today at 5:48am Rights are moral categories. They are about standards of conduct, behaviour, interaction. And since all interactions are contextual, rights are discerned in a particular context.
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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14590 Armidale Gender:	Re: What rights do you have? Reply #3 - Today at 6:18am Morality it is. Putin has the moral right to Ukraine and the US to own Venezuela and Greenland and world trade. US is righter than others. This is neatly balanced by Russia's larger nuke benefits which give it the world.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #4 - Today at 7:45am

chimera wrote Today at 6:18am:

Morality it is. Putin has the moral right to Ukraine and the US to own Venezuela and Greenland and world trade. US is righter than others. This is neatly balanced by Russia's larger nuke benefits which give it the world.

American assertions of 'manifest destiny' and exceptionalism are backed by force of arms, not moral justifications or 'natural rights' as expounded in the Declaration of Independence, nor codified in the Constitution.

Monroe's so-called doctrine back in 1823 was a 'wouldn't it be nice if'... the British, Spanish and French quit the Americas. It was not, at the time, a doctrine the nascent US could back by force. It was an aspiration for future total hegemony in North America.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #5 - Today at 7:50am

Morality is a main pillar of the granting of rights. But it's not the only one.

No one has a moral right to own, say, 10,000 Hectares of land or 20 houses they don't use... under our system, they can have a legal right to own them, insofar as our system recognises and defends the right for individuals to own more than they need or use.

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freediver

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #6 - Today at 7:54am

MeisterEckhart wrote Yesterday at 9:26pm:

Rights are permissions to do, or protections against impositions.

They require an acknowledged authority to grant a right; an authority that commits to protecting those rights from those who would confront you when you exercise that right or impose on you where they must not.

In the myth of a state's right to exist, the myth's grantor, if not a nation-state, is usually a metaphysical being, as is the case with Israel.

That someone confronts you exercising that right is not an indication that the right doesn't exist.

Do you believe that you have the right to do something, even if the consistent and predictable result of doing it is someone trying to kill you - because pieces of paper trump reality?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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chimera Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 14590 Armidale Gender:	Re: What rights do you have? Reply #7 - Today at 7:58am Trump nearly trumped Congress on Jan 6 which proves the US myth is fake. The Kennedy Center is fake, for sure to be and all. Statue of Liberty is hollow.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16504 Gender:	Re: What rights do you have? Reply #8 - Today at 8:02am chimera wrote Today at 7:58am: Statue of Liberty is hollow. And French.
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chimera

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #9 - Today at 8:12am

The French received the royal privilege. "Dieu et mon droit" (French for "God and my right") is the official motto of the British monarch, representing the divine right of the sovereign to rule. It signifies that the monarch is "Rex Angliae Dei gratia" (King of England by the grace of God) and is not subject to earthly authority.' (except George Washington)

The Italian French kings of Poms are right and owned France until the mob took over.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #10 - Today at 8:13am

MeisterEckhart wrote Today at 7:45am:

chimera wrote Today at 6:18am:

Morality it is. Putin has the moral right to Ukraine and the US to own Venezuela and Greenland and world trade. US is righter than others. This is neatly balanced by Russia's larger nuke benefits which give it the world.

American assertions of 'manifest destiny' and exceptionalism are backed by force of arms, not moral justifications or 'natural rights' as expounded in the Declaration of Independence, nor codified in the Constitution.

Monroe's so-called doctrine back in 1823 was a 'wouldn't it be nice if'... the British, Spanish and French quit the Americas. It was not, at the time, a doctrine the nascent US could back by force. It was an aspiration for future total hegemony in North America.

And the drawing of the line at Mexico was not that the US ran out of manifest destiny, it was the realisation that the invasion and incorporation of Mexico into the Union would mean the ultimate naturalisation of Mexicans as US citizens.

Canada was another story... After multiple wars and treaties, the US decided to live with their British northern neighbours.

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Bobby.

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #11 - Today at 8:14am

https://astorlegal.com.au/miranda-rights-and-the-right-to-silence-australia/

Miranda Rights and the Right to Silence Australia

Posted by Avinash Singh, on November 25, 2024

In Australia, the right to remain silent is an important legal safeguard, though it differs from the well-known Miranda Rights in the United States.

Common law and legislation in Australia set out that refusing to answer police questions generally cannot be used against you. However, there are some exceptions in serious criminal matters.

What Are Miranda Rights?

The Miranda Rights, originating from a 1966 U.S. Supreme Court case involving Ernesto Miranda, is a statement read by police to individuals being arrested to inform them of their rights. This process is known as being “Mirandized.” You may have watched this happening in Hollywood films and TV, but Miranda Rights apply only in the United States. The Miranda Rights read as follows:

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you?”.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #12 - Today at 8:17am

chimera wrote Today at 8:12am:

The French received the royal privilege. "Dieu et mon droit" (French for "God and my right") is the official motto of the British monarch, representing the divine right of the sovereign to rule. It signifies that the monarch is "Rex Angliae Dei gratia" (King of England by the grace of God) and is not subject to earthly authority.' (except George Washington)

The Pope added Fidei Defensor later.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #13 - Today at 8:22am

Bobby. wrote Today at 8:14am:

https://astorlegal.com.au/miranda-rights-and-the-right-to-silence-australia/

Miranda Rights and the Right to Silence Australia

Posted by Avinash Singh, on November 25, 2024

In Australia, the right to remain silent is an important legal safeguard, though it differs from the well-known Miranda Rights in the United States.

Common law and legislation in Australia set out that refusing to answer police questions generally cannot be used against you. However, there are some exceptions in serious criminal matters.

What Are Miranda Rights?

The Miranda Rights, originating from a 1966 U.S. Supreme Court case involving Ernesto Miranda, is a statement read by police to individuals being arrested to inform them of their rights. This process is known as being “Mirandized.” You may have watched this happening in Hollywood films and TV, but Miranda Rights apply only in the United States. The Miranda Rights read as follows:

“You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you. Do you understand the rights I have just read to you?”.

Yep, and in the US, silence itself cannot be used against you in a court of law. In Australia, silence can be... as in, 'If it's true you had an alibi, why didn't you inform the arresting officers at the time?'

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chimera

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Re: What rights do you have?
Reply #14 - Today at 8:30am

MeisterEckhart wrote Today at 7:45am:

American assertions of 'manifest destiny' and exceptionalism are backed by force of arms, not moral justifications or 'natural rights' as expounded in the Declaration of Independence, nor codified in the Constitution.

Trump doesn't keep silent about that. If America is first it must have manifest destiny, which is great and Republicans have the right or they will lose their country.

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