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How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal (Read 398 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #15 - Yesterday at 1:53pm
 
lee wrote Yesterday at 12:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 25th, 2026 at 10:48am:
McKim correctly implied it's easier for people who already have sufficient equity in housing to buy another house,  than for a first home buyer, in the current overpriced housing market, given NG (which The Greens also rightly condemn) and CGT discount rate which encourages investment in housing.


So the CGT discount, which operates when a property is sold, has nothing to do with having enough equity. That equity must be positive, their income must be positive to pay the loan, and not rely solely on rental income. Roll Eyes



Er....you are ignoring  the fact equity of those already fortunate enough to have owned (or be buying) a house has increased remarkably over the last three
decades, courtesy of rising house prices during that period, outstripping average wages by a wide margin.

Hence the current intergenerational inequity which NG and CGT discount are making worse; indeed its easier for asset-rich rent-seekers to buy a 5th house, than for average wage earners who are not asset rich.




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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #16 - Yesterday at 1:55pm
 
Labor is tackling generational inequality - they are making great strides at a a rapid pace in completing the restoration of neo-Fuedalism and the utter subjugation of the'masses'.

Every Single Policy Thrust is working towards that end....

It is not only the Parties that are the direct cause of this with their mass imigration, tax cuts and concessions every which way for 'investors' - the banks are complicit as well due to their lending policies and the travesty of somehow seeing 'equity' in a property just purchased ... REAL equity does not develop until such time as the market has actually given that property a rise in true value - what the banks are doing for investors - killing off the hope of a home for families and reducing Australia to an overwhelmingly renting group like some poor country - is viewing 'equity' as the FUTURE POSSIBLE RISE in value of that property.

It is frankly insane and a roller coaster runaway train that the banks and the governments have now tied themselves to and cannot let go of the tiger's tail ...... if they do collapse is the only future they have.

THAT is why they are enforcing mass immigration to keep their balls rolling (and they should be rolling on the scaffold) and are retaining the ludicrous policy idea that 'investment provides housing' when it clearly does not ... and still giving concession after concession to investors over home owners, who get nothing but bills.

A home owner doesn't get the cost of maintenance and upkeep and renos and interest etc off his tax - like everything else - Joe and Jo Bloggs pay for it all, and that is so wrong and clearly unbalanced in that it gives to one 'legal entity' one set of rules and to another a completely different set of rules.

Abolish concessions for property investment NOW!
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #17 - Yesterday at 2:30pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 1:55pm:
Labor is tackling generational inequality - they are making great strides at a a rapid pace in completing the restoration of neo-Fuedalism and the utter subjugation of the'masses'.


Labor isn't tackling intergenerational inequality, but at least Labor has legislated higher wages for low income workers, and made the stage-3 tax cuts more progressive (ie benefitting lower income groups).

Quote:
Every Single Policy Thrust is working towards that end....


But you refuse to acknowledge the Conservatives would increase inequity, with their usual 'don't tax the rich' taxation policies.   

Quote:
It is not only the Parties that are the direct cause of this with their mass imigration, tax cuts and concessions every which way for 'investors'


Wow - a correct statement from you, let's see how far you can go before getting lost in 'sovereign citizen'/personal responsibility ideology...

Quote:
- the banks are complicit as well due to their lending policies and the travesty of somehow seeing 'equity' in a property just purchased ... REAL equity does not develop until such time as the market has actually given that property a rise in true value - what the banks are doing for investors - killing off the hope of a home for families and reducing Australia to an overwhelmingly renting group like some poor country - is viewing 'equity' as the FUTURE POSSIBLE RISE in value of that property.


Cor blimey, you are STILL analyzing the situation correctly...given goverments are committed to ever-rising house prices, to ensure house owners and mortgagees - 60% of the population - are able to maintain positive equity.

Quote:
It is frankly insane and a roller coaster runaway train that the banks and the governments have now tied themselves to and cannot let go of the tiger's tail ...... if they do collapse is the only future they have.


Yep.

Quote:
THAT is why they are enforcing mass immigration to keep their balls rolling (and they should be rolling on the scaffold) and are retaining the ludicrous policy idea that 'investment provides housing' when it clearly does not ... and still giving concession after concession to investors over home owners, who get nothing but bills.


Yep.

Quote:
A home owner doesn't get the cost of maintenance and upkeep and renos and interest etc off his tax - like everything else - Joe and Jo Bloggs pay for it all, and that is so wrong and clearly unbalanced in that it gives to one 'legal entity' one set of rules and to another a completely different set of rules.

Abolish concessions for property investment NOW!


Well blow me down, you managed it all the way to the end without error.

Well done.

But given the current overpriced housing market, what is your proposal to ensure housing for everyone in Oz, as Menzies achieved even in the high-immigration post-WW2 era

(Hint: he presided over a period of large-scale  public housing...courtesy of Keynesian deficit spending).   
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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 2:35pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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lee
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #18 - Yesterday at 3:31pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 1:53pm:
Er....you are ignoring  the fact equity of those already fortunate enough to have owned (or be buying) a house has increased remarkably over the last three
decades, courtesy of rising house prices during that period, outstripping average wages by a wide margin.


No. You expected prices to go down, long-term? And nothing to do with CGT discount.

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 1:53pm:
Hence the current intergenerational inequity which NG and CGT discount are making worse; indeed its easier for asset-rich rent-seekers to buy a 5th house, than for average wage earners who are not asset rich.


You haven't even made a case for the effect of CGT. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #19 - Yesterday at 4:42pm
 
lee wrote Yesterday at 3:31pm:
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 1:53pm:
Er....you are ignoring  the fact equity of those already fortunate enough to have owned (or be buying) a house has increased remarkably over the last three
decades, courtesy of rising house prices during that period, outstripping average wages by a wide margin.


No. You expected prices to go down, long-term?


Are you asking me a question?

The answer is no, it's obvious prices will only go down enough to make houses affordable for first-home buyers on average wages, either in a general economic crisis (like the GFC...but then unemployment will decapitate first home buyers), or if government rebuilds public housing, while discouraging high-equity, rent-seeking investors to buy multiple houses by removing NG and CGT discounts.   


Quote:
And nothing to do with CGT discount.


That's not what bank lenders who want to lend as much money as possible think, they see the CGT discount as added insurance on the loan if the borrower has to sell a property. 


Quote:
You haven't even made a case for the effect of CGT. Roll Eyes


See above; and meanwhile you are too incompetent to offer ANY polcies to solve the current housing crisis.

Looks like we will have to wait for some suggestions from grappler......


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Leroy
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #20 - Yesterday at 5:03pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:42pm:
lee wrote Yesterday at 3:31pm:
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 1:53pm:
Er....you are ignoring  the fact equity of those already fortunate enough to have owned (or be buying) a house has increased remarkably over the last three
decades, courtesy of rising house prices during that period, outstripping average wages by a wide margin.


No. You expected prices to go down, long-term?


Are you asking me a question?

The answer is no, it's obvious prices will only go down enough to make houses affordable for first-home buyers on average wages, either in a general economic crisis (like the GFC...but then unemployment will decapitate first home buyers), or if government rebuilds public housing, while discouraging high-equity, rent-seeking investors to buy multiple houses by removing NG and CGT discounts.   


Quote:
And nothing to do with CGT discount.


That's not what bank lenders who want to lend as much money as possible think, they see the CGT discount as added insurance on the loan if the borrower has to sell a property. 


Quote:
You haven't even made a case for the effect of CGT. Roll Eyes


See above; and meanwhile you are too incompetent to offer ANY polcies to solve the current housing crisis.

Looks like we will have to wait for some suggestions from grappler......




Banks do not, I REPEAT DO NOT take the CGT in to consideration for anything to do with the value of a home or acceptance of a loan. I don't know where you got that from but someone has given you false information.

The other important thing you are overlooking is that the cheapest way to buy a home is to build your own, taking the investor out of the market will not I REPEAT WILL NOT reduce the cost of housing in any way. It will cost the same to build a house if not more by taking out the investors.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #21 - Yesterday at 5:24pm
 
Incredible evasion down there about how people cannot get into the market...  maybe this will put a little chili on your posterior:-

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/great-aussie-home-ownership-dream-aging-...

Great Aussie home ownership dream aging as banks see more first-time buyers above 40

Despite saving for the best part of seven years, Maddy has given up on the prospect of buying a home in Australia.

The healthcare worker from Melbourne, who has asked to only share her first name, went to 70 inspections last year, and made three offers, only for the homes to sell for more than $100,000 above asking price.

"Even with a really healthy deposit, because the prices have increased so substantially so quickly, to put myself in that level of debt, I'd have to borrow, I guess the maximum that I'm allowed."

The average age to purchase your first home has risen as salaries struggle to keep up with soaring house prices — statistics compiled by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare show a lower portion of young people owning homes.

Maddy, who is 30-years-old, told the ABC she isn't comfortable with taking out that amount of debt to service a mortgage, and has made the decision to instead move overseas in the coming years to start a family."


.... more.. read for yourself lazy-bones....
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Leroy
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #22 - Yesterday at 5:47pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 5:24pm:
Incredible evasion down there about how people cannot get into the market...  maybe this will put a little chili on your posterior:-

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/great-aussie-home-ownership-dream-aging-...

Great Aussie home ownership dream aging as banks see more first-time buyers above 40

Despite saving for the best part of seven years, Maddy has given up on the prospect of buying a home in Australia.

The healthcare worker from Melbourne, who has asked to only share her first name, went to 70 inspections last year, and made three offers, only for the homes to sell for more than $100,000 above asking price.

"Even with a really healthy deposit, because the prices have increased so substantially so quickly, to put myself in that level of debt, I'd have to borrow, I guess the maximum that I'm allowed."

The average age to purchase your first home has risen as salaries struggle to keep up with soaring house prices — statistics compiled by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare show a lower portion of young people owning homes.

Maddy, who is 30-years-old, told the ABC she isn't comfortable with taking out that amount of debt to service a mortgage, and has made the decision to instead move overseas in the coming years to start a family."


.... more.. read for yourself lazy-bones....


Yeah I don't know how that sits with most Australians, she is thirty and can't buy a home in the most expensive part of the most expensive city so she is going to move overseas.

Don't think that resonates with most young Australians. A bit of a beat up story to make news out of nothing.
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Trump derangement syndrome
Fareed Zakaria defined the term as "hatred of President Trump so intense that it impairs people's judgment"

Lets check in at 5pm on 23rd July 2025 then at 5pm on 30th July
 
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lee
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #23 - Yesterday at 7:26pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:42pm:
The answer is no, it's obvious prices will only go down enough to make houses affordable for first-home buyers on average wages, either in a general economic crisis (like the GFC...but then unemployment will decapitate first home buyers), or if government rebuilds public housing, while discouraging high-equity, rent-seeking investors to buy multiple houses by removing NG and CGT discounts.   


Tradies are the workers that build the houses. Are you now saying they should not charge their going rate? Doesn't that make them third class citizens?

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:42pm:
That's not what bank lenders who want to lend as much money as possible think, they see the CGT discount as added insurance on the loan if the borrower has to sell a property.


Nope. you have your hand in your shorts as usual.  Banks look at a person's tax return. There is not CGT in that, unless they have sold something. Banks prudently look at capacity to pay. A future mortgagee sale based on any supposed CGT discount would be disastrous. Roll Eyes
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thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #24 - Today at 10:27am
 
lee wrote Yesterday at 7:26pm:
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:42pm:
The answer is no, it's obvious prices will only go down enough to make houses affordable for first-home buyers on average wages, either in a general economic crisis (like the GFC...but then unemployment will decapitate first home buyers), or if government rebuilds public housing, while discouraging high-equity, rent-seeking investors to buy multiple houses by removing NG and CGT discounts.   


Tradies are the workers that build the houses. Are you now saying they should not charge their going rate? Doesn't that make them third class citizens?

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:42pm:
That's not what bank lenders who want to lend as much money as possible think, they see the CGT discount as added insurance on the loan if the borrower has to sell a property.


Nope. you have your hand in your shorts as usual.  Banks look at a person's tax return. There is not CGT in that, unless they have sold something. Banks prudently look at capacity to pay. A future mortgagee sale based on any supposed CGT discount would be disastrous. Roll Eyes


(google)

The 50% Capital Gains Tax (CGT) discount in Australia is considered a significant incentive that encourages multiple house ownership and investment in residential property. When combined with negative gearing, it encourages investors to focus on capital growth, which often leads to increased demand for property.

How the CGT Discount Encourages Multiple Property Ownership:

Tax Efficiency on Profits: The 50% CGT discount allows individuals to reduce the taxable portion of a capital gain by half, provided the asset has been held for at least 12 months. This makes long-term investment in property highly attractive compared to other investments.

Incentivising Capital Growth:

The policy encourages investors to target high-growth properties, as the tax on the profit is halved when they sell, making investment-focused purchasing more attractive than simply relying on rental income.

"6-Year Rule" Flexibility:

Investors can treat a former main residence as their primary home for tax purposes for up to six years after moving out, even if they rent it out. This allows an investor to buy a new home, retain the old one as a rental, and still potentially pay zero CGT on both when the first one is sold (provided they don't treat the new one as their main residence in the interim)



I see graps has provided further evidence  of the dysfunction of the current tax arrangements re puchase of housing in Oz, but I await with bated breath for your suggestions to the current  housing crisis in Oz.   
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thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #25 - Today at 10:37am
 
Leroy wrote Yesterday at 5:47pm:
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote Yesterday at 5:24pm:
Incredible evasion down there about how people cannot get into the market...  maybe this will put a little chili on your posterior:-

https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/great-aussie-home-ownership-dream-aging-...

Great Aussie home ownership dream aging as banks see more first-time buyers above 40

Despite saving for the best part of seven years, Maddy has given up on the prospect of buying a home in Australia.

The healthcare worker from Melbourne, who has asked to only share her first name, went to 70 inspections last year, and made three offers, only for the homes to sell for more than $100,000 above asking price.

"Even with a really healthy deposit, because the prices have increased so substantially so quickly, to put myself in that level of debt, I'd have to borrow, I guess the maximum that I'm allowed."

The average age to purchase your first home has risen as salaries struggle to keep up with soaring house prices — statistics compiled by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare show a lower portion of young people owning homes.

Maddy, who is 30-years-old, told the ABC she isn't comfortable with taking out that amount of debt to service a mortgage, and has made the decision to instead move overseas in the coming years to start a family."


.... more.. read for yourself lazy-bones....


Yeah I don't know how that sits with most Australians, she is thirty and can't buy a home in the most expensive part of the most expensive city so she is going to move overseas.

Don't think that resonates with most young Australians. A bit of a beat up story to make news out of nothing.


c. 30% of Aussies own a house, and 30% are buying a house, which is why the government (all governments) don't want to see house prices fall,which would plunge many of the more recent buyers into negative equity (apart fron reducing the 'wealth' of all the owners as well).

And young people on the average wageare increasingly looking at being life-long renters.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #26 - Today at 10:52am
 
Leroy wrote Yesterday at 5:03pm:
Banks do not, I REPEAT DO NOT take the CGT in to consideration for anything to do with the value of a home or acceptance of a loan. I don't know where you got that from but someone has given you false information.


But banks are complicit in preferential lending to housing investment by multiple home owners,  encouraged by current taxation policy.

Quote:
The other important thing you are overlooking is that the cheapest way to buy a home is to build your own,


Yes - and how many workers on the average wage have the time to build a house, even if they had the knowledge how to do it? Subcontracting won't save much money, and the price of land in cities is a major problem.

Quote:
taking the investor out of the market will not I REPEAT WILL NOT reduce the cost of housing in any way. It will cost the same to build a house if not more by taking out the investors.


The issue is intergenerational inequity, forcing young workers on the average wage into long-term renting, a situation their parents did not have to face. 

Your solution?



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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #27 - Today at 12:18pm
 
As usual the greens lack common sense. If you sell an asset for double what you paid for it, but over the same period of time inflation has caused all other assets to also double in price, have you actually doubled your money? The Greens say yes, and they want to tax you on it, because it is unfair for most of the "benefit" to go to rich people. In other words, they don't care whether it is actually fair, but they do care whether they can tax the rich. What they don't realise is that every scheme that has ever been implemented to disproportionately tax the rich ends up harming the poor. The very wealthy can easily take their money somewhere else, and they inevitably do. The lesson is always the same, but the greens never learn.
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lee
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #28 - Today at 12:53pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Today at 10:27am:
The 50% Capital Gains Tax (CGT) discount in Australia is considered a significant incentive that encourages multiple house ownership and investment in residential property. When combined with negative gearing, it encourages investors to focus on capital growth, which often leads to increased demand for property.



And the source is so good you refuse to name it. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

But I switched to google and got the AI response, of course with no clue as to where they actually drained it from. Wink

I will give you two examples off the top of mortgagee sales.

1. Where the primary breadwinner loses their job.
2. where the primary breadwinner dies.

But it seems you have dropped that silly claim.
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Bobby.
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Re: How One Tax Break Keeps Australia Unequal
Reply #29 - Today at 2:28pm
 
freediver wrote Today at 12:18pm:
As usual the greens lack common sense. If you sell an asset for double what you paid for it, but over the same period of time inflation has caused all other assets to also double in price, have you actually doubled your money? The Greens say yes, and they want to tax you on it, because it is unfair for most of the "benefit" to go to rich people. In other words, they don't care whether it is actually fair, but they do care whether they can tax the rich. What they don't realise is that every scheme that has ever been implemented to disproportionately tax the rich ends up harming the poor. The very wealthy can easily take their money somewhere else, and they inevitably do. The lesson is always the same, but the greens never learn.



It's the same with having money in the bank or a Super account.
You have to pay tax on interest earned even though it doesn't cover real inflation.
There is no offset for an agreed level of inflation.

House, unit or apartment prices can go up 25% in one year or more than that -
yet money you are trying to save to buy a place has its 3% interest taxed -
which means you cannot save to buy a property.

With property - a line has been crossed in Victoria.
You are taxed on land now if you own an investment property.
It's like paying rent for your own house.
That cost is passed on to renters - the poorest and most vulnerable people.

Rates are similar - the higher your property assumed price the more rates you pay.
You are paying the council rent to live in your own home.
I already know a pensioner who had to sell his house because he was $35,000
in debt for rates.
The council was about to freeze his house and sell it to recover their money -
he sold first and moved out to a house way out of Melbourne.
BTW - he was a disability pensioner - with no income except from Centrelink -
the council didn't give a stuff - they wanted their rates and they got them.
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