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What is international law? (Read 1921 times)
Bobby.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #15 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:34am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


Yes and as for Taiwan -

I could understand China wanting to take it over if it was a failed State on their border -
but it's not -
it's very successful - it has higher Silicon chip technology than China.
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freediver
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #16 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:39am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:34am:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


Yes and as for Taiwan -

I could understand China wanting to take it over if it was a failed State on their border -
but it's not -
it's very successful - it has higher Silicon chip technology than China.


Indeed. If you ranked all the countries of the world by how democratic they are, and ranked them all again by how wealthy they are, the lists would look remarkably similar. Even more so if you could capture how long they have been democratic for. Comparing Taiwan and South Korea with North Korea and China gives you a little microcosm of the appalling human cost of communist dictatorship.
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Bobby.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #17 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:43am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:39am:
Bobby. wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:34am:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


Yes and as for Taiwan -

I could understand China wanting to take it over if it was a failed State on their border -
but it's not -
it's very successful - it has higher Silicon chip technology than China.


Indeed. If you ranked all the countries of the world by how democratic they are, and ranked them all again by how wealthy they are, the lists would look remarkably similar. Even more so if you could capture how long they have been democratic for. Comparing Taiwan and South Korea with North Korea and China gives you a little microcosm of the appalling human cost of communist dictatorship.



That's true but there are exceptions to the rule:

Saudi Arabia is one - they chop off 100s of heads every year
and deny women basic human rights.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #18 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:56am
 
You watch what happens when petrol cars become obsolete. A lot of those exceptions will disappear. The "rule" has had consistent results for centuries, though all sorts of upheavals.
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Bobby.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #19 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:01am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:56am:
You watch what happens when petrol cars become obsolete. A lot of those exceptions will disappear. The "rule" has had consistent results for centuries, though all sorts of upheavals.



Nothing will ever replace the power density of petrol or diesel and
also the ease of filling up in 2 minutes -
not waiting 8 hours to charge a battery.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #20 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:04am
 
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Nothing will ever replace the power density of petrol or diesel and


People don't want power density. They want to get from A to B, and are increasingly choosing electric vehicles.
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Bobby.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #21 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:13am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:04am:
Quote:
Nothing will ever replace the power density of petrol or diesel and


People don't want power density. They want to get from A to B, and are increasingly choosing electric vehicles.



We're off topic but -

it's good if you can charge up at home with solar power
and you don't have to drive too far.
Not very good if you rely on remote charging stations.  Undecided
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #22 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:43am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:30am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 5:55pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


No, the UN represents the aspiration for world peace.



So, no people or countries then?


Where did I suggest that?

Quote:
When you say world "peace," is that the same peace as your suggestion that the CCP would take back Taiwan "peacefully" by killing anyone who gets in their way?


No, it's the peace referred to in  the preamble to the UN Charter:

"We the peoples of the United Nations, determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war......"

Quote:
You never came up with an estimate of how many millions of people would die. I think the count is about 100 million Chinese people killed by the CCP so far.


The topic is international law, not the failure (past or present) of states to ensure prosperity for their populations, as per the UN UDHR.

Quote:
TGDAs for UNIVERSAL human rights: multi-party democracy is not listed as a requirement, and indeed the jury is still out re one party versus multi party government.

Grin

What jury? You don't see many people in democracies calling for them to be replaced by single party dictatorships, but plenty of Chinese are calling for real democracy, when they aren't getting run over by tanks.


The jury considering Churchill's famous remark : "democracy is the worst form of government" etc, implying good government isn't possible. 

Whereas c 90% of Chinese (a billion people or so) are satisfied with their central government  according to a 2019 Harvard poll, while many democracies are wracked by hyperpartisanship. 


Quote:
The worst human-made disasters in the history of the world came from our two single party communist behemoths: China and Russia, with he smaller ones only falling short because they would run out of people to kill. The only thing more dangerous than a Nazi trying to kill you is a communist trying to help you.


Nevertheless, looking forward: the jury is still out re good governance, given the CCPs proven capacity to change course and eradicate poverty at the fastest rate in history post 1990.

Good governance: achieving the principles set out in the UNUDHR. 



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thegreatdivide
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #23 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:54am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:34am:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


Yes and as for Taiwan -

I could understand China wanting to take it over if it was a failed State on their border -
but it's not -
it's very successful - it has higher Silicon chip technology than China.


The problem is the DPP faction of the ROC wants to secede from China, whereas the  KMT faction of the ROC doesn't want to secede, presumably hoping the PRC will become 'democratic' some day.

Hence Taiwan remains in 'no man's land', spurned by the UN.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:59am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:56am:
You watch what happens when petrol cars become obsolete. A lot of those exceptions will disappear. The "rule" has had consistent results for centuries, though all sorts of upheavals.


Ah...Saudi will have to reinvent its economy.

Indeed, good government must aspire  to  raising the living stbndards of all its citizens, as per the UN UDHR.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #25 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 10:05am
 
Bobby. wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:01am:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:56am:
You watch what happens when petrol cars become obsolete. A lot of those exceptions will disappear. The "rule" has had consistent results for centuries, though all sorts of upheavals.



Nothing will ever replace the power density of petrol or diesel and
also the ease of filling up in 2 minutes -
not waiting 8 hours to charge a battery.


Many car companies are spending up big, on hydrogen fuel cell EV research.

That will solve the 'long distance from home' problem.

Now - back to 'international law',  and its concomitant UNUDHR.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #26 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 11:23am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:43am:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:30am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 5:55pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


No, the UN represents the aspiration for world peace.



So, no people or countries then?


Where did I suggest that?


When you contradicted my claim that the UN represents countries, insisting instead that it represents "aspirations". The CCP for example does not aspire to world peace. They aspire to kill as many Taiwanese people as necessary to conquer Taiwan. Because being responsible for the deaths of only 100 million Chinese people is not enough. You yourself even made the idiotic claim that China's right to start another war was already written into UN law, so if there was a war it would be everyone else's fault. Unfortunately that is the type of evil regime and moronic thought process that the UN inevitably has to represent.

"Aspirations" indeed.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #27 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 11:50am
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 11:23am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 9:43am:
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 8:30am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 5:55pm:
freediver wrote on Jan 9th, 2026 at 12:46pm:
What makes it even worse is that the UN represents a bunch of dictators who see the UN as nothing more than another tool to subvert democracy, human rights and true justice. And the CCP is gradually buying them all off so the UN can rubber stamp it killing a few million Taiwanese.


No, the UN represents the aspiration for world peace.



So, no people or countries then?


Where did I suggest that?


When you contradicted my claim that the UN represents countries, insisting instead that it represents "aspirations".


Ok, fair point....but in fact the UN represents the COMMUNITY  of nations; spot the difference?

Quote:
The CCP for example does not aspire to world peace.


The CCP aspires to world peace as much as any other country.


Quote:
They aspire to kill as many Taiwanese people as necessary to conquer Taiwan.


Your error: the CCP is determined  to preserve Chinese sovereignty while avoiding another civil war with compatriots on the island; which - in the age of MAD - means  China will wait until it can tell the Pentagon where to go, no bloodshed required.

And then any violence will be between the DPP and the KMT on Taiwan, because the latter don't want to secede from the Motherland.      


Quote:
Because being responsible for the deaths of only 100 million Chinese people is not enough. You yourself even made the idiotic claim that China's right to start another war was already written into law, so if there was a war it would be everyone else's fault. Unfortunately that is the type of evil regime and moronic thought process that the UN inevitably has to represent.


Your error: I said the CCP reserves the right to use force if necessary - but in the age of MAD, Xi knows he has to first get the US to agree to Chinese sovereignty in Taiwan, which he eventually will get when the PLA is more powerful than the Pentagon.

Repeating your delusional 'individual freedom' ideology wont stop it from being delusional.
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Re: What is international law?
Reply #28 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 12:01pm
 
Quote:
Ok, fair point....but in fact the UN represents the COMMUNITY  of nations; spot the difference?


The community of nations is still made up of specific nations, most of which are dictatorships that slaughter their own citizens and look to the UN to legitimise that mass murder.

Like the CCP for example. Like you spineless apologetics for future mass murders by the CCP that you want them to commit.

Quote:
The CCP aspires to world peace as much as any other country.


And as I already pointed out, you say "peace", but you mean mass murder. The CCP actually aspires to kill it's opponents and invade Taiwan. You claimed the invasion would be done peacefully, but saw no contradiction between that and killing all the Taiwanese citizens who want to stand up for their democracy and human rights. And you pre-emptively blamed everyone else for the war that would inevitably result because, according to you, the UN has already magically decreed that China has the right to invade.

Spineless, two-faced communists who promise everything and deliver nothing but death. That is what your "international law" represents.
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« Last Edit: Jan 10th, 2026 at 12:07pm by freediver »  

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Re: What is international law?
Reply #29 - Jan 10th, 2026 at 2:16pm
 
freediver wrote on Jan 10th, 2026 at 12:01pm:
Quote:
Ok, fair point....but in fact the UN represents the COMMUNITY  of nations; spot the difference?


The community of nations is still made up of specific nations, most of which are dictatorships that slaughter their own citizens and look to the UN to legitimise that mass murder.


Erroneous narrative as usual, blaming the UN for not enforcing international law which is informed by the principles of the UNUDHR.

Quote:
Like the CCP for example. Like you spineless apologetics for future mass murders by the CCP that you want them to commit.


Like I said, repeating that nonsense doen't make it true; China is tolerating the status quo in Taiwan, so long as the DPP backed by the US doesn't declare independence.

Quote:
And as I already pointed out, you say "peace", but you mean mass murder.


Incorrect; just shows how much the doctrine of absolute national sovereignty has crippled your brain. Obviously mass murder isn't peace, as Trump's murder of 100 Venezuelans and Cubans while kidnapping Maduro testifies.

Quote:
The CCP actually aspires to kill it's opponents and invade Taiwan.


2 errors:

1. The CCP aspires to maintain sovereignty over its territory, like any nation.

2. A  nation can't "invade" its own territory.

Quote:
You claimed the invasion would be done peacefully, but saw no contradiction between that and killing all the Taiwanese citizens who want to stand up for their democracy and human rights.


Forms of good governance, including multiparty democracy and human rights, is debatable; and the KMT don't want to secede from the mainland.

Quote:
And you pre-emptively blamed everyone else for the war that would inevitably result because, according to you, the UN has already magically decreed that China has the right to invade.


Your errors: any war will be a civil war in Taiwan itself, since the PLA and Pentagon won't be going to war (the costs are now too high for the Pentagon, even in a conventional war in the Taiwan Straits). 

Quote:
Spineless, two-faced communists who promise everything and deliver nothing but death. That is what your "international law" represents.


Patience dear fellow; the CCP is delivering a steady increase in living standards for all mainland Chinese.

International law is an aspiration to "save mankind from the scourge of war" , an aspiration rendered impossible because of your obsolete absolute national sovereignty' doctrine.
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