Australian Politics Forum - Donald Trump on The Conversation

Melanias purse

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #60 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:24pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

Old boy, you despise liberalism and democracy.

And remember, your preferred political ideology emerged in the Christian West too, no?

Jawohl.

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Dnarever

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #61 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61345 Here Gender:	Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation Reply #62 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 7:08pm Quote: Donald Trump on The Conversation Is Trump the first person on the conversation who isn't capable of finishing a complete sentance?
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Frank

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #63 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

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Melanias purse

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #64 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:16pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

You do realize the Fuhrer had intractables like yourself put to use in the service of the state, no?

If you people couldn't clear mines or whatever, you could be melted down to make candles.

Now that's the kind of Western culture we like to see, old chap.

Truly Christlike virtues like your own.

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Dnarever

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #65 - Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:43pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

Quote:

Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

For one Charlie III can dismiss the PM That is the Head of the Church of England can fire the British Prime Minister.

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Frank

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #66 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 2:11pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:43pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

Quote:

Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

For one Charlie III can dismiss the PM That is the Head of the Church of England can fire the British Prime Minister.

That reserve power is held by most heads of state over heads of government in parliamentary systems when a PM loses the confidence of parliament.
Parlaiament can also remove the head of state, even the head of the head of state - see Charles I.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 15113 Armidale Gender:	Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation Reply #67 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 3:10pm And so UK tradition has the head of state as head of the state church. The archbishop has precedence over the PM in ceremony. (see the Oggai Hujjwob, Stonehenge , 3000 BC) HM Ch III has reserve power to send the lads overseas to take over from the Canberra Capital dreadful chaps.
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Dnarever

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #68 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 6:34pm

Frank wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 2:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:43pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

Quote:

Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

For one Charlie III can dismiss the PM That is the Head of the Church of England can fire the British Prime Minister.

That reserve power is held by most heads of state over heads of government in parliamentary systems when a PM loses the confidence of parliament.
Parlaiament can also remove the head of state, even the head of the head of state - see Charles I.

Yes your point ?

The head of the Anglican church can dismiss the Prime Minister ?

The political head of state is also the head of the Anglican church. This goes both ways the political position has power over the church and the church has power over the government.

About as far from any seperation of power as it can get.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 15113 Armidale Gender:	Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation Reply #69 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 6:55pm The old king and priest ideas run deep. https://icds.ee/en/church-is-a-body-of-state-how-the-kremlin-wields-religion-as-...
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Frank

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #70 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 9:08pm

Dnarever wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 6:34pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 2:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:43pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

Quote:

Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

For one Charlie III can dismiss the PM That is the Head of the Church of England can fire the British Prime Minister.

That reserve power is held by most heads of state over heads of government in parliamentary systems when a PM loses the confidence of parliament.
Parlaiament can also remove the head of state, even the head of the head of state - see Charles I.

Yes your point ?

The head of the Anglican church can dismiss the Prime Minister ?

The political head of state is also the head of the Anglican church. This goes both ways the political position has power over the church and the church has power over the government.

About as far from any seperation of power as it can get.

You are an idiot.

Every state has a head of state.
Every state has a government.
When the head of state is not the same as the head of government, the former has reserve powers over the latter, usually exercised through parliamentary processes.

Stop being an idiot.

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Dnarever

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Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation
Reply #71 - Dec 14^th, 2025 at 9:33pm

Frank wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 9:08pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 6:34pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 14^th, 2025 at 2:11pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 10:43pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 8:58pm:

Dnarever wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 6:55pm:

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2025 at 2:25pm:

The West has clearly changed and evolved through these historical developments. Liberal democracy emerged in the Christian West and every aspect of, all the freedoms, most institutions of education and welfare, are rooted in the West's Christianity.
Islam's doctrines are the same as they have been for 1400 years since it was declared to be final and unalterable from the start. Evolution itself - gradually change dotted with occasional revolutions or less, is an idea that could only emerge in a Christian culture, never in Islam. Something eternally unchangeable and figsl cannot undergo gradual changes or revolutionary shifts.
Hence no reformation of Islam, while Christianity and liberal democracy are constantly evolving, changing and self-correcting.

Secularism is possible only in such an evolving religious and cultural milleau. That is why we even have atheists who are culturally Christians. Richard Dawkins is one and there are many, many others.

Nobody is an atheist yet culturally still Muslim.

So this:

Quote:

Christianity has had from the outset, the separation of state and church.

Wasn't actually correct.

OH and yes the current head of the Church of England is in fact King Charles III.

Mark 12.17.
Predates Charles, Henry, Mohammed. Predates the Church.

In any case, list all the powers Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

Go on.

Quote:

Charles has as head of Church to override the elected government of the UK.

For one Charlie III can dismiss the PM That is the Head of the Church of England can fire the British Prime Minister.

That reserve power is held by most heads of state over heads of government in parliamentary systems when a PM loses the confidence of parliament.
Parlaiament can also remove the head of state, even the head of the head of state - see Charles I.

Yes your point ?

The head of the Anglican church can dismiss the Prime Minister ?

The political head of state is also the head of the Anglican church. This goes both ways the political position has power over the church and the church has power over the government.

About as far from any seperation of power as it can get.

You are an idiot.

Every state has a head of state.
Every state has a government.
When the head of state is not the same as the head of government, the former has reserve powers over the latter, usually exercised through parliamentary processes.

Stop being an idiot.

Quote:

Every state has a head of state.

Yes but the head of state is seldom the head of the church too.

I'm an idiot but your the one who cannot say anything relivant ?

I'm sure it makes sence to you. Remember this is your argument saying that there is a long history of seperation of state and church yet today in England there is no seperation at all.

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61345 Here Gender:	Re: Donald Trump on The Conversation Reply #72 - Dec 15^th, 2025 at 7:40am Quote: Donald Trump on The Conversation Donald Trump on something he can't do ?
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