Australian Politics Forum - Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime

Baronvonrort

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Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Dec 8^th, 2025 at 3:20pm

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‘You’re joking’: Wild exchange reveals national crisis as Albanese government denies tobacco tax helps black market

A senior Labor minister was asked a simple question about Australia’s exploding black market cigarette market. His answer left a politician speechless

The Albanese government has sparked fury by returning a firm “no” when asked if the country’s high tobacco taxes were fuelling a rampant black market.

The average price for a legal packet of 20 cigarettes is now more than $40, with each individual cigarette slapped with a $1.49 federal excise, after it was hiked a further 5 per cent in September. Meanwhile, an illegal pack of cigarettes sells $12 or less.

Internal tobacco industry figures show illicit tobacco now accounts for 50 per cent of all tobacco sales in Australia, and that figure is expected to reach 80 per cent in 2026.

But Labor senator and cabinet minister, Murray Watt, has insisted the tax is not contributing to illicit sales, claiming there’s “no evidence” for it.

At Senate estimates on Tuesday, One Nation Senator Malcolm Roberts questioned Senator Watt, who was representing Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke, about the illegal tobacco trade.

“Do you consider the government’s very high tobacco duty as the reason otherwise law-abiding citizens are prepared to buy illegal tobacco, for generally a third of the legal price?” Senator Roberts asked.

“No,” came the flat response from Senator Watt.

“Any reasons?” asked Senator Roberts.

“There’s absolutely no evidence to suggest that argument,” Senator Watt replied.

“You’re joking,” said Senator Roberts after a chuckle.

“No,” Senator Watt repeated.

The One Nation Senator appeared surprised as he pressed further, asking: “No data - just meetings, just ‘no’. Empowering organised crime, decreasing revenue that taxpayers have to make up, and you just say ‘No’?”

“Well, you asked me a question and I said, ‘No,’” Senator Watt said.

In later comments to News.com.au, Senator Roberts described the response of his Labor counterpart as a “joke”.

“Murray Watt’s argument that super high tobacco taxes don’t incentivise Australians to buy black-market smokes is beyond belief,” Senator Roberts said.

“It turns government’s public policy positions into a laughingstock if they can’t admit reality. It’s a joke.

“The government is completely out of touch with the reality in which Australians are living. People are seeing tobacco taxes as government greed. It’s not about health anymore.”

A tobacco industry insider said it was obvious that the excise was turning Aussies toward illicit cigarettes.

“It’s frightening that a senior cabinet minister can show such ignorance on basic economics,” said the employee at a major tobacco firm under condition of anonymity.

“If you tax something to the moon and criminals sell it for a third of the price, people buy the cheap version.

“That’s not controversial - that’s Economics 101.

“If Senator Watt doesn’t think price is a factor, then he should state what is driving otherwise law-abiding citizens to buy products from criminals who use the profits to fund other crimes, including human trafficking.”

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/youre-joking-wild-exc...

A carton of B&H 20s $640 at Coles

A carton of B&H 20s from blackmarket $95

I wonder why people buy cheaper smokes that aren't taxed Roll Eyes

Murray Watt, has insisted the tax is not contributing to illicit sales, claiming there’s “no evidence” for it which shows how out of touch he is.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #1 - Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:50pm baronvontwit shows why he is an idiot............. again
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Yadda

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #2 - Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:52pm

Re OP content.

The proverb say's......
A Fish Rots From The Head

But imo, it is plain, that every nation gets the political class which it deserves.

The political class of any nation, will always be a reflection of the moral standard of those,
such stewards are drawn from.

Reflection.......
In my memory, Australia was always, far from a perfect society of men.

But today, imo, Australia has >> become << an immoral and shameless society.

Our politicians and judges, are shameless people, imo.

.

Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation:
but sin is a reproach to any people.

Forgotten Wisdom......

A moral stance [for young people] that today,
no school or college in this nation,
would ever consider meditating upon.....

Proverbs 1:10
My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Frank

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #3 - Dec 8^th, 2025 at 5:30pm

Quote:

Murray Watt, has insisted the tax is not contributing to illicit sales, claiming there’s “no evidence” for it which shows how out of touch he is.

Murray Watt is talking outa his arse. Of course it's the exorbitant price that created the huge black market.
What else could it be?

Climate change? Islamophobia against Middle Eastern and Chinese organised crime? Wacism?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3243 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #4 - Yesterday at 9:33am John Smith wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:50pm: baronvontwit shows why he is an idiot............. again What a fabulously insightful observation, well done John Smith, you have excelled yourself again [no mean feat].
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John Smith

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #5 - Yesterday at 11:30am

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 9:33am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:50pm:

baronvontwit shows why he is an idiot............. again Cheesy

What a fabulously insightful observation, well done John Smith, you have excelled yourself again [no mean feat].

no need to over complicate it. He's an idiot. That's as simple as it gets

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Frank

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #6 - Yesterday at 11:49am

John Smith wrote Yesterday at 11:30am:

Sir Eoin O Fada wrote Yesterday at 9:33am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:50pm:

baronvontwit shows why he is an idiot............. again Cheesy

What a fabulously insightful observation, well done John Smith, you have excelled yourself again [no mean feat].

no need to over complicate it. He's an idiot. That's as simple as it gets

Why is there such a huge black market in tobacco? Because of the exorbitant government tax on legal tobacco.

A packet of 20 B & H is $60. That's $3 per cigi.

In 1980 it was the equivalent of about $1.50 -$2 a packet.

Naturally, criminal gangs will want some of that exorbitant profit.

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:55am by Frank »

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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freediver

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #7 - Yesterday at 11:53am

It all started with vapes. You could buy them on the internet from overseas for a fraction of the price, and they seem to be better for you - unless you end up smoking even more, which plenty of people do. I suspect the tobacco authorities just gave up. They did not know how to enforce the rules. So they let people get away with selling vapes in a retail setting also. The black market was always there, but suddenly it had millions more customers because smokers got used to avoiding the tax, and started hunting around for cheap tobacco in other forms. The government pushed the tobacco tax to its limit until the system broke.

From an economic perspective, taxing addictive or habit-forming drugs is a great idea, because you do not destroy the industry and destroy jobs. People continue drinking alcohol and smoking despite huge taxes that would destroy any other industry. Even when combined with government efforts to stop people smoking, it still generated massive revenue. But when it starts to look like prohibition, it can snap.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Sir Eoin O Fada Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3243 New England, NSW Gender:	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #8 - Yesterday at 12:46pm Rumours have it that tobacco is being home grown again, both for personal use and for profit.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 54188 Gender:	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #9 - Yesterday at 1:01pm Australia will become like South America. A drug fuelled nation. Both regions are the most virulent in nature. What's your poison? ...btw. An Australian woman in Italy has near killed her children with mushrooms. It's the biggest news in Italy atm.
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lee

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #10 - Yesterday at 5:32pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 11:53am:

It all started with vapes.

Nope. The black market tobacco trade existed before vapes.

" The first commercially successful e-cigarette was created by a Chinese company in 2003 to help people quit smoking."

https://www.abc.net.au/btn/high/history-of-vaping-vs-smoking/101943252

The evidence for black market tobacco goes back to at least 2000.

"Evidence for a large consumption of blackmarket processed–leaf–tobacco throughout the eastern States of Australia"
Sivyer, Graham Australian and New Zealand Journal of Public Health. 2000. "

edit: "The term "chop-chop" was coined in the mid-18990s by staff at an Australian tobacco manufacturer, W.D. & H.O. Wills Australia Limited, endeavouring to combat the illegal trade. The term comes from the production process of the illicit producers - merely chopping up the cured tobacco leaves."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/where-theres-smokes-20100429-twmg.html)

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« Last Edit: Yesterday at 5:53pm by lee »

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freediver

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #11 - Yesterday at 7:51pm

lee wrote Yesterday at 5:32pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 11:53am:

It all started with vapes.

Nope. The black market tobacco trade existed before vapes.

" The first commercially successful e-cigarette was created by a Chinese company in 2003 to help people quit smoking."

https://www.abc.net.au/btn/high/history-of-vaping-vs-smoking/101943252

The evidence for black market tobacco goes back to at least 2000.

"Evidence for a large consumption of blackmarket processed–leaf–tobacco throughout the eastern States of Australia"
Sivyer, Graham Australian and New Zealand Journal of Public Health. 2000. "

edit: "The term "chop-chop" was coined in the mid-18990s by staff at an Australian tobacco manufacturer, W.D. & H.O. Wills Australia Limited, endeavouring to combat the illegal trade. The term comes from the production process of the illicit producers - merely chopping up the cured tobacco leaves."

https://www.smh.com.au/national/where-theres-smokes-20100429-twmg.html)

You completely missed the point Lee. How did you manage to decide you were disagreeing with me after I said "The black market was always there"?

Or are you actually trying to argue that the black market for tobacco only came into existence 3 years before the first vape was invented?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19725 Gender:	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #12 - Yesterday at 7:54pm freediver wrote Yesterday at 7:51pm: You completely missed the point Lee. Your point was encapsulated in your opening sentence.
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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51828 At my desk.	Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime Reply #13 - Yesterday at 7:56pm You have done an aweful lot of research to contradict a 5 word statement that you don't understand. Perhaps you should have figured it out first.
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Baronvonrort

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Re: Labor policy creating jobs for organised crime
Reply #14 - Yesterday at 8:41pm

John Smith wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:50pm:

baronvontwit shows why he is an idiot............. again Cheesy

Various reports are saying over 50% of all ciggy sales are blackmarket smokes by this time next year it's possible 90%+ are going to be supplied by blackmarket.

Carton of B&H 20s at Coles $640
Carton of same smokes on blackmarket $95 a saving of $545

What is Labors repsonse with that idiot Murray Watt sticking his head up his arse and pretending it isn't happening?

Labor can stick with their current idiocy and watch ciggy revenue dry up which really helps these criminal cartels by pretending it isn't happening and doing nothing.

They will have to drop a considerable amount of tax to compete with smokes at $10 a pack people are saying the government can GFY they are buying cheaper alternative.

At $10 a pack the importer middleman and retailer are all making tax free money.

Gillard introduced these taxes on smokers which has resulted in loss of revenue for the government while their policy supports organaised crime.

Libertarian Senator David Limbrick predicted the excessive taxes on smokes will result in organised crime filling the market need.

Quote:

John Ibrahim's son Daniel Taylor released on bail

Fri 11 Aug 2017

The son of Kings Cross identity John Ibrahim has been released from Sydney Police Centre in Surry Hills after spending three nights behind bars on charges relating to an alleged international crime syndicate.

Daniel Taylor, 26, was arrested following police raids in Sydney on Tuesday and charged with transferring $2.25 million to facilitate the importation of large quantities of tobacco.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-11/john-ibrahims-son-daniel-taylor-released-...

As usual Labor have no solution to the problem they created Roll Eyes

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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