Australian Politics Forum - Australian national and cultural identity

chimera

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #90 - Yesterday at 11:01am

freediver wrote Yesterday at 9:34am:

This happened in the judeo-christian fringe of western civilisation, which had been largely taken over by Islam.

Israel didn't exist after the Romans smashed it. Europe persecuted the Jews. Ottomans didn't enter Europe until 1453, 200 years after Renaissance started, and only held the South east fringe (not in Rome, not in Britain).

'Muslim Spain acted as a crucial bridge, preserving and advancing Greco-Roman knowledge, which directly fueled the European Renaissance through scientific, mathematical, philosophical, and artistic contributions that later spread to the rest of Europe, establishing advanced schools, libraries, and a culture of intellectual exchange before its fall'.

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Frank

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #91 - Yesterday at 11:35am

chimera wrote Yesterday at 11:01am:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 9:34am:

This happened in the judeo-christian fringe of western civilisation, which had been largely taken over by Islam.

Israel didn't exist after the Romans smashed it. Europe persecuted the Jews. Ottomans didn't enter Europe until 1453, 200 years after Renaissance started, and only held the South east fringe (not in Rome, not in Britain).

'Muslim Spain acted as a crucial bridge, preserving and advancing Greco-Roman knowledge, which directly fueled the European Renaissance through scientific, mathematical, philosophical, and artistic contributions that later spread to the rest of Europe, establishing advanced schools, libraries, and a culture of intellectual exchange before its fall'.

This is largely nonsense propagated by Muslims.

The translations, for example, were done by the conquered Jews and Christians who learned Arabic.
The conquering Arabs did not learn Greek or Latin.
The Muslims expelled from Spain did not go to Europe. The Jews did, mainly to Italy and Holland.
The great impetus for the Renaissance was the influx of fleeing Byzantines in the 15th century. They had all the Greek and Latin books.

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chimera

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #92 - Yesterday at 11:53am

Europeans went to Spain because Muslims had texts translated, which were then available.
'Medieval Spain had Islamic centers of learning, like the Madrasa of Granada and in Toledo and Córdoba, which functioned as universities, fostering advanced studies in science, philosophy, medicine, and mathematics, attracting European scholars and transferring vast knowledge to the Latin West through translations, influencing early European universities like Salamanca.'

Western Europe was barbaric by contrast, in the 8th-10th centuries.

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tallowood

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #93 - Yesterday at 2:07pm

Since 10th century changes in Islam involve the rise of political Islam/Islamism, the global spread of Salafism, the rise of transnational jihadism (catalyzing global networks like Al-Qaeda and Islamic State).
West Europe went well for awhile to Renaissance after Dark Ages but fell to pit of self destructive WOKE ideology.
Hopefully both Islam and WOKE won't become cultural identity of Australia.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 13354 Armidale Gender:	Re: Australian national and cultural identity Reply #94 - Yesterday at 3:00pm Australia has around 1.2 million camels across 37% of mainland Australia. These can easily breed enough for each family to survive AGW, bushfires and live in low-rental tents.
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Frank

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #95 - Yesterday at 3:50pm

chimera wrote Yesterday at 11:53am:

Europeans went to Spain because Muslims had texts translated, which were then available.
'Medieval Spain had Islamic centers of learning, like the Madrasa of Granada and in Toledo and Córdoba, which functioned as universities, fostering advanced studies in science, philosophy, medicine, and mathematics, attracting European scholars and transferring vast knowledge to the Latin West through translations, influencing early European universities like Salamanca.'

Western Europe was barbaric by contrast, in the 8th-10th centuries.

The Renaissance, Humanism, Scientific Revolution had nothing to do with Islam.
Petrarch, Boccaccio, Dante had nothing to do with the moors, nor Copernicus, Galileo or Bacon, nor Raphael, Leonardo or Bramante.

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chimera

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #96 - Yesterday at 4:37pm

Correct. However Islam brought positive improvement in knowledge when French and Germans were battling pagans and Vikings were pillaging Britain.

'Knowledge is divided into religious sciences (Uloom al-Diyan) and worldly sciences (Uloom al-Abdan), with both being essential and encouraged. University of al-Qarawiyyin in Morocco of 859, is the world's first degree-awarding institution and oldest continuously operating higher educational institution, starting as a mosque and evolving into a state university in 1963'.

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Gnads

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #97 - Today at 9:24am

John Smith wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 4:53pm:

Gnads wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 12:58pm:

mothra wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 7:15am:

John Smith wrote on Dec 7^th, 2025 at 5:57pm:

Australian culture is about welcoming all comers, regardless of race, religion or skin colour.
Frank refuses to integrate. Frank thinks those that refuse to integrate should be deported. Frank should be deported.

So proud to live in a country that has been so wonderfully infused by so many different cultures. All the best bits.

The worst is soon chipped away.

And so we excel in so many ways.

Multicultural Australia is the Australia i am proud of.

In your dreams it has.

don't worry, you won't be here much longer Roll Eyes

Long enough phucktard - to see the shyte the place will turn into with your ilk at the helm.

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Gnads

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #98 - Today at 9:33am

chimera wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 6:02pm:

Probably it shows that Christian nations have colonised every one of the Muslim countries. In contrast, Islam rarely colonises the West. And it has good cameleers, ask the Commonwealth Railways.

That's because they couldn't win a raffle. When they decided to revert to the fundamentalist Islam of 1400 years ago .... the intelligence to wage a war & win reverted to the methods of that time too.

But now they are colonising nearly every western nation by another method - legal & illegal migration by stealth -

and that's been working - you know it's working when they take over certain areas/suburbs of cities - create no go zones because they use Sharia Law & their own Sharia Police.

London, Paris, Stockholm, Berlin, Sydney, New York, Minneapolis, etc etc.

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 13354 Armidale Gender:	Re: Australian national and cultural identity Reply #99 - Today at 9:47am Gnads wrote Today at 9:33am: no go zones , Sydney, If you had camels, you could travel in Sydney.
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Gnads

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #100 - Today at 9:49am

chimera wrote Yesterday at 5:50am:

Frank wrote on Dec 8^th, 2025 at 9:03pm:

The West improves, Islam degrades.

I'm not keen on Islam but the facts are:
'Moorish civilization in Spain (Al-Andalus) was a prosperous Islamic culture that ruled much of the Iberian Peninsula from 711 to 1492, bringing major advancements in science, math, medicine, arts, and architecture, flourishing with universities, libraries, and sophisticated cities like Cordoba, leaving a lasting legacy on Spanish language, culture, and European knowledge. These North African Muslims (Moors) established a sophisticated society where Muslims, Jews, and Christians coexisted for centuries, introducing new crops, advanced irrigation, paper, and Arabic numerals before their eventual expulsion by Catholic monarchs.
Education & Science: Flourishing centers of learning with universities (e.g., in Cordoba, Granada, Seville), vast libraries, and advancements in astronomy, medicine (experimentation, surgery), mathematics (Arabic numerals), and philosophy.
Architecture: Renowned for masterpieces like the Alhambra in Granada, intricate irrigation systems, public baths (hammams), and sophisticated urban planning with streetlights and paved roads in cities.
Agriculture & Technology: Introduced new crops (oranges, lemons, peaches, sugar cane) and technologies, including paper, to Europe.
-------------
Spain then became Catholic and invaded Britain. It destroyed Canary Islands culture then the Sth American cultures and enslaved them, stealing their gold and silver.

No - Spain didn't invade Britain - it tried & failed.

The Spanish Armada of 1588 was crushed by the English with superior ships & tactics.

The rest of the Spanish fleet was destroyed by storms & incompetent seamanship.

What Spain did to Sth American & other countries it colonised is an argument in favour of what the British colonisation did in it's colonies. Because it was opposite to Spain in it's dealings with local peoples.

All the things of benefit that was bought by the Moorish Islamic invasion/colonisation between 711 & 1492 has been lost in fundamentalist radical Islamic countries today.

They still rely on the worlds super powers to wage their Islamic terrorist Jihad. Russia, China & the West.

Yet still the only small democracy in a sea of Islamic shytehole countries can still kick their collective arses.

Not an Afghan or Indian Cameleer in sight.

You should hurry down to the camel pen - you wouldn't want to get an ugly one. Grin

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Gnads

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #101 - Today at 9:51am

chimera wrote Yesterday at 3:00pm:

Australia has around 1.2 million camels across 37% of mainland Australia. These can easily breed enough for each family to survive AGW, bushfires and live in low-rental tents.

Yes we sell them to the Saudis - they think our camels are especially beautiful & are good racers.

Saddle up dickhead.

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chimera

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #102 - Today at 10:07am

Gnads wrote Today at 9:49am:

All the things of benefit that was bought by the Moorish Islamic invasion/colonisation between 711 & 1492 has been lost in fundamentalist radical Islamic countries today.

Ah but Frank's q. is about 'Islam and positive improvement in the West and Australia'.
Just as the Afghan camel men had no links to modern extremism, so Spain's history to 1492 is not about the radicals of 2025.

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freediver

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Re: Australian national and cultural identity
Reply #103 - Today at 10:23am

chimera wrote Yesterday at 11:01am:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 9:34am:

This happened in the judeo-christian fringe of western civilisation, which had been largely taken over by Islam.

Israel didn't exist after the Romans smashed it. Europe persecuted the Jews. Ottomans didn't enter Europe until 1453, 200 years after Renaissance started, and only held the South east fringe (not in Rome, not in Britain).

'Muslim Spain acted as a crucial bridge, preserving and advancing Greco-Roman knowledge, which directly fueled the European Renaissance through scientific, mathematical, philosophical, and artistic contributions that later spread to the rest of Europe, establishing advanced schools, libraries, and a culture of intellectual exchange before its fall'.

Europe had the holocaust. Most Europeans, and indeed the world, responded with horror when the truth finally came out. The middle east responded by trying to have its own holocaust.

You talk of a bridge of knowledge into Europe. Why did there need to be a bridge at all? Why could the various Muslim empires not have built an advanced civilisation on the back of the Roman example? Why did they instead lock the middle east and north africa into a mad max style collapsed society, that is still barely functioning today?

Quote:

Europeans went to Spain because Muslims had texts translated

You know Spain is in Europe, right?

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chimera Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 13354 Armidale Gender:	Re: Australian national and cultural identity Reply #104 - Today at 10:38am Europeans needed the bridge due to their lack of the texts. They went to Spain in Europe because that is where the texts were available, within Europe. The later Muslim history in not part of Frank's q. or the thread about Oz.
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