Australian Politics Forum - The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb

lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #30 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:55pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm:

you are the one citing baseload, it's up to you to show it, not up to others to show that it doesn't exist.

It is two sides of the one coin dummy. Neither side can prove it. FD claims that baseload does NOT exist.

Poor Guido. Grin

John Smith wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm:

I can claim aliens exist and then demand others prove there are no aliens

But you don't have to show any reasoning for your claim that aliens exist, it is all in your mind? Grin

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John Smith

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #31 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 4:10pm

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:55pm:

It is two sides of the one coin dummy.

no, it's a figment of your imagination

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:55pm:

But you don't have to show any reasoning for your claim that aliens exist,

can't prove that wrong?We'll try another one.

I claim you have sh1t for brains. Prove me wrong.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #32 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:49am

Perhaps the Liberal party would have us believe in unicorns, and base their re-election strategy on it, until their critics can prove they do not exist. Don't worry Lee, no-one is going to make the effort to prove them wrong. They can take their fairy tale to the every future election until the Liberal party doesn't exist either.

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lee

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #33 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:14am

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:49am:

Perhaps the Liberal party would have us believe in unicorns, and base their re-election strategy on it, until their critics can prove they do not exist.

So like you, they have no clue. That's all good.

I see you still haven't spelled out exactly what the minimum power generation shoulkd be. One must assume you think it is nothing. Wink

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #34 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:16am

lee wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:14am:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:49am:

Perhaps the Liberal party would have us believe in unicorns, and base their re-election strategy on it, until their critics can prove they do not exist.

So like you, they have no clue. That's all good.

I see you still haven't spelled out exactly what the minimum power generation shoulkd be. One must assume you think it is nothing. Wink

You do have a tendency to make it up when you don't know what you are talking about.

Would you also have us describe in great detail the features of the unicorns we do not think exist?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19710 Gender:	Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb Reply #35 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:18am freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:16am: You do have a tendency to make it up when you don't know what you are talking about. So then tell us, PLEASE. What is the minimum stable generation needed to power Australia to be a successful manufacturing country?
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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #36 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:28am

lee wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:18am:

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:16am:

You do have a tendency to make it up when you don't know what you are talking about.

So then tell us, PLEASE. What is the minimum stable generation needed to power Australia to be a successful manufacturing country? Roll Eyes

Like I said, it is an entirely meaningless concept, born of economic illiteracy and Liberal part echo chambers. No less stupid than you demanding I describe the unicorns that I tell you do not exist. You have had your brain scrambled by Liberal party propaganda.

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Gnads

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #37 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:55am

LNP never again wrote on Nov 28^th, 2025 at 8:06pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 28^th, 2025 at 6:48pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2025 at 10:07am:

I think it makes sense to keep them running for as long as they are financially viable. We aren't going to build any new ones. Eventually renewables, batteries, hydro storage etc will be so much cheaper that they will die a natural death.

The government should sell off the ones they still own and stop using them as propaganda.

Not likely because none of those are capable of meeting baseload requirements.

No such thing as baseload power

Yes there is .... you're little cliche is the lie.

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Gnads

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #38 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:57am

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 7:36am:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Nov 28^th, 2025 at 6:48pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 26^th, 2025 at 10:07am:

I think it makes sense to keep them running for as long as they are financially viable. We aren't going to build any new ones. Eventually renewables, batteries, hydro storage etc will be so much cheaper that they will die a natural death.

The government should sell off the ones they still own and stop using them as propaganda.

Not likely because none of those are capable of meeting baseload requirements.

Sure they are. Batteries, hydro and stored hydro especially.

Can you tell me what the baseload requirements are?

Quote:

Baseload power is simply the minimum needed to provide services

Which is?

What's stored hydro? Roll Eyes

Do you mean pumped hydro?

Which by the way is not cheap.

The cost & time in building/delivering of Snowy2 has already blown out massively.

Just like all your renewables BS has.

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #39 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:06pm

Quote:

Do you mean pumped hydro?

Both. Even conventional hydro works well as a peaking supply. The installed capacity in generally higher than the available flow.

Quote:

Which by the way is not cheap.

Tasmania has the cheapest electricity in Australia, thanks to their hydro stations. We are going to build a second and probably third connection to the mainland so we can take advantage of that.

Quote:

The cost & time in building/delivering of Snowy2 has already blown out massively.

Just like all your renewables BS has.

Wind and solar are cheaper than nuclear by a factor of about 3, and the gap keeps widening. Thanks to this, Australians will probably be getting several hours of free power per day soon.

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Gnads

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #40 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:09pm

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 1:08pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 7:36am:

Quote:
Baseload power is simply the minimum needed to provide services

Which is?

What ever it needs at the time.

Which is?

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

What having baseload power means is having reliable supply that can handle peak demands without brown or black outs.

Batteries can not & will never do that - all they do is give a minimum backup & are used to balance out a fluctuating & intermittent supply.

Not having baseload power because of renewables & the net zero pipedream will see the end of all industry in Australia have us as a net importer of everything & at the mercy of foreign govts.

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Gnads

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #41 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 6:22pm:

lee wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:45pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Who decides what "it" needs and how much "it" needs?

Oh you do petal. Grin

freediver wrote on Nov 29^th, 2025 at 5:08pm:

Are you saying that the coalition bases their entire energy policy and re-election platform on an imaginary number that disappears into a puff of windbaggery as soon as you ask them what they mean?

Windbaggery? Sounds suspiciously like wind power. Just put a bigger bag on, a wind turbine bellows. Grin

But do tell us what the minimum requirement is to run a modern manufacturing environment. You must have some idea, since you post about there being no baseload power. Wink

The main problem with the OP is it fails to acknowledge that the need to upgrade the Oz power system will be expensive whichever way we go.

As to minimum requirements in Oz (serving business and a population of only 27 million living on a windy, sunny desert the size of China), they can be easily met with a surplus of batteries (widely available) connected to several SunCable equivalent schemes, in conjunction with large pumped hydro schemes in the Great Dividing Range.

And if necessary to meet future requirements, maybe nuclear in a couple of decades might be able replace some of those batteries which need to be be rolled out NOW....so relax, just get on with the unavoidable transition.

Pumped hydro is extremely expensive.

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freediver

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #42 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:15pm

Quote:

What having baseload power means is having reliable supply that can handle peak demands without brown or black outs.

Thanks for shifting the goal posts again. But your definition is no less circular than Lee's attempt to define the minimum required power as whatever "it" needs.

Can you tell us what "peak demand" is?

Quote:

Batteries can not & will never do that

They can quite easily, but they won't do it alone, nor will they need to. We already have plenty of hydro, gas peaking etc. And people are already using the batteries in electric vehicles to get power when there is a blackout for the most common reason - storms. So the transition has already started to improve the reliability of supply.

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Gnads

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Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb
Reply #43 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:16pm

John Smith wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:37pm:

lee wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 3:23pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:59pm:

The consequence being that those who spruik it cannot even say what it is.

And those that think not, cannot mount a case for that. Wink

you are the one citing baseload, it's up to you to show it, not up to others to show that it doesn't exist.

Imagine applying that to any argument. I can claim aliens exist and then demand others prove there are no aliens Cheesy

Yes it is if they say it doesn't exist. You hypocrite.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51775 At my desk.	Re: The Coalition's Coal Power Gamble Budget Bomb Reply #44 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 12:18pm Quote: Yes it is if they say it doesn't exist. You hypocrite. You are confused Gnads. Terribly confused. It almost sounds like you are a Liberal voter.
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