Australian Politics Forum - Taiwan's right to exist

freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #60 - Yesterday at 12:10pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:05pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 11:46am:

Can the CCP achieve peaceful RE-unification with Taiwan, without first turning China into a real democracy?

Yes; if the US butts out, the PLA can enforce an embargo on the island, cripple its economy and starve it into submission without heavy loss of life or property.

I have no doubt they would and could do that. I'm just surprised you describe that as peaceful, or expect it would result in a peaceful takeover.

How many millions of people would the CCP kill in this "peaceful" takeover?

If the people of Taiwan don't want it, what is the point?

Didn't you just finish whining and accusing Israel of doing exactly this with Palestine, violating all sorts of UN rules that you insist should govern nations?

Why should the US, Japan and other nations stand back and let the communist morons destroy another of their trading partners?

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #61 - Yesterday at 12:26pm

Quote:

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders

In 2015, Taiwan's per capita GDP was 2.8 times that of China. In 2025, it is 2.5 times as high. Are you saying that in a decade, China might catch up to where Taiwan was a decade ago?

On top of that, China has a much larger and more severe income disparity than Taiwan.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #62 - Yesterday at 12:28pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:10pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:05pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 11:46am:

Can the CCP achieve peaceful RE-unification with Taiwan, without first turning China into a real democracy?

Yes; if the US butts out, the PLA can enforce an embargo on the island, cripple its economy and starve it into submission without heavy loss of life or property.

I have no doubt they would and could do that. I'm just surprised you describe that as peaceful, or expect it would result in a peaceful takeover.

You missed my edit: the CCP want peaceful reunification, and are building people to people contacts even in the face of blocking by the DPP.

Who are the "freedom or death" goons?

Quote:

How many millions of people would the CCP kill in this "peaceful" takeover?

If the people of Taiwan don't want it, what is the point?

See above, you missed my edit; the CCP has support on the island which they are nurturing.

Quote:

Didn't you just finish whining and accusing Israel of doing exactly this with Palestine, violating all sorts of UN rules that you insist should govern nations?

Taiwan was part of China when Israel was invented by the UN, do try to keep up.

Quote:

Why should the US, Japan and other nations stand back and let the communist morons destroy another of their trading aprtners?

Nice try, but China is already the largest trading nation in the world, including Oz with its pragmatic approach to China:

Google AI

a majority of Australians do not support the US in a war in the Taiwan Strait; support is divided, with many preferring neutrality or non-military action, though there is also significant support for the alliance with the US. Recent polls show a near-even split or a preference for neutrality when it comes to military conflict, with recent data from November 2025 indicating 47% would back supporting the US while 50% would prefer neutrality.

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #63 - Yesterday at 12:30pm

Quote:

the CCP has support on the island which they are nurturing

And I pointed out already that this is just another example of you mimicking the CCP's capacity for self delusion. The party you described as being China-friendly is the one that wants Taiwan to take over China and turn it into a modern, wealthy democracy. It takes a particular devotion to lying to yourself to turn that around and decide the Taiwanese want the Chinese to starve them out, slaughter them, and turn the place into another Chinese shithole. Even worse, to convince yourself that the support will grow as China starves and kills them.

The CCP's propaganda simply does not work in nations that allow their people to think for themselves.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #64 - Yesterday at 12:43pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:26pm:

Quote:

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders

In 2015, Taiwan's per capita GDP was 2.8 times that of China. In 2025, it is 2.5 times as high. Are you saying that in a decade, China might catch up to where Taiwan was a decade ago?

No, Im observing the growth rates in the mature 'high income' 1st world democracies slow to c. 2%. China will grow at double that rate over the next decade.

Quote:

On top of that, China has a much larger and more severe income disparity than Taiwan.

Yet unlike India, China has eradicated absolute poverty among its poorest 700 million (WB figures), and built the world's largest middle class (400 million people).

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #65 - Yesterday at 12:48pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:26pm:

Quote:

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders

In 2015, Taiwan's per capita GDP was 2.8 times that of China. In 2025, it is 2.5 times as high. Are you saying that in a decade, China might catch up to where Taiwan was a decade ago?

No, Im observing the growth rates in the mature 'high income' 1st world democracies slow to c. 2%. China will grow at double that rate over the next decade.

Quote:

On top of that, China has a much larger and more severe income disparity than Taiwan.

Yet unlike India, China has eradicated absolute poverty among its poorest 700 million (WB figures), and built the world's largest middle class (400 million people).

So when you said China would catch up to "the islanders" in a decade, you meant first world democracies, not Taiwan?

Did you mean China would "catch up" because they would be blockading and starving them out within a decade?

What does India have to do with it? Do you simply fall back on India every time you are proven to be lying about the CCP's economic performance?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #66 - Yesterday at 12:50pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:30pm:

Quote:

the CCP has support on the island which they are nurturing

And I pointed out already that this is just another example of you mimicking the CCP's capacity for self delusion.

No, I actually keep abreast of what's happenng in cross-straights relations; eg, some popular Taiwanese artists and singers support reunification with the mainland.

Quote:

The CCP's propaganda simply does not work in nations that allow their people to think for themselves.

Yet your "democratic freedoms" ideology is delusional....

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #67 - Yesterday at 12:53pm

Quote:

No, I actually skeep abreast of what's happenng in cross-straights relatioins

And I posted the link to actual serveys of the actual opinions of actual Tainwanese people, not a little pink's delusions about the CCP's grandeur.

If you "keep abreast" how is it that you decided that a party that wants to overthrow the CCP and set up a modern wealthy democracy in China is Taiwan's "China friendly" party, and that the votes they get are proof that Taiwanese people are in favour of the CCP starving them, slaughtering them, then imposing their economic mismanagement on them?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #68 - Yesterday at 1:00pm

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:48pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 12:43pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 12:26pm:

Quote:

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders

In 2015, Taiwan's per capita GDP was 2.8 times that of China. In 2025, it is 2.5 times as high. Are you saying that in a decade, China might catch up to where Taiwan was a decade ago?

No, Im observing the growth rates in the mature 'high income' 1st world democracies slow to c. 2%. China will grow at double that rate over the next decade.

Quote:

On top of that, China has a much larger and more severe income disparity than Taiwan.

Yet unlike India, China has eradicated absolute poverty among its poorest 700 million (WB figures), and built the world's largest middle class (400 million people).

So when you said China would catch up to "the islanders" in a decade, you meant first world democracies, not Taiwan?

Of course, unless you think Taiwan will become the next Leichtenstein

Quote:

Did you mean China would "catch up" because they would be blockading and starving them out within a decade?

No

Quote:

What does India have to do with it? Do you simply fall back on India every time you are proven to be lying about the CCP's economic performance?

Democratic inefficiency hinders ascent out of poverty for governments dealing with large populations, do try to keep up.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51709 At my desk.	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #69 - Yesterday at 1:01pm Why do you call the first world democracies "the islanders"?
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53789 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #70 - Yesterday at 4:11pm Going by the USA. I wouldn't with that kind of Democracy on any nation.
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