Australian Politics Forum - Taiwan's right to exist

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53786 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #45 - Yesterday at 5:09pm Many tourists and YouTuber travellers go to China. It isn't as strict or controlling as people think. Better than going to Russia, Turkmenistan or other countries in Africa and other regions. A lot safer than the USA.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14282
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #46 - Yesterday at 5:25pm

Bobby. wrote Yesterday at 5:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:48pm:

Bobby. wrote Yesterday at 4:00pm:

TGD,
Quote:

"the CCP is internally democratic", and appreciated by the vast majority of mainlanders (c.90%, according to a Harvard poll) who in fact have a favourable opnion of their central government, unlike the view of the electors in democracies who are split into numerous contending interests, and forced to elect unstable governments despised by more than half the population, eg Labor only gained 30% of the primary vote in the last election, yet it's governing with a huge majority in the HoR.

Dear TGD,
are you now or have you ever been a member of the CCP?

I think you have asked me that before.

No.

By now you should know my interest is in achieving common prosperity aka the general welfare - an economic task, irrespective of one-party, or multi-party government.

https://publicmoneypublicgood.net/

'Public Money: Public Good'.

The Commonwealth can fund these essentials sufficiently and indefinitely without risk of financial instability or insolvency.

Plenty of posts in the MMT thread outlining how.

But if it quacks like a duck and looks like a duck. Undecided

See the addendum to my last post:

<<Neoclassical economics in the context of elections based on self-interest cannot achieve common prosperity, hence my interest in the China model which has common prosperity as a stated goal.

In any case, see:

https://publicmoneypublicgood.net/

'Public Money: Public Good'. (PMPG)

The Commonwealth can fund these essentials sufficiently and indefinitely without risk of financial instability or insolvency.

Plenty of posts in the MMT thread outlining how.>>

.....

Cease being so ideological like FD; communism..... capitalism, who cares, China is neither; and it's the system which creates prosperity for all, as advocated in the PMPG link, which is the worthwhile system.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Yesterday at 5:33pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 51709
At my desk.

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #47 - Yesterday at 9:03pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:28pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 3:55pm:

Quote:

Vast majority?

Yes. I provided a link in case you were confused.

Not confused: the non-DPP voters who elected the (anti-independence) majority in parliament (which is blocking the DPP's independence push) don't want independence which will result in the destruction of the island ....and worse: you have been warned by China who is already strong enough to cause the Pentagon to reconsider....

Quote:

FD As the KMT supports the ROC as the only representative of China, it opposes both Chinese unification under the PRC and formal Taiwan independence.

What do you think that means, little pink?

It means the non-DPP voters who want peaceful reunification, not war, will have to convince the CCP they possess a superior governing ideology.

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders, and an economy
50 times as large, with a PPP GDP double that of the US.

Game over.

If the Americans said they wanted to peacefully unify China and Taiwan into one democratic country, with the current Taiwanese government as the interim managers, and the CCP consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong, would you also describe them as being "China-friendly"?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53786 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #48 - Yesterday at 9:51pm No.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 114372
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #49 - Yesterday at 10:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 5:25pm:

Cease being so ideological like FD; communism..... capitalism, who cares, China is neither; and it's the system which creates prosperity for all, as advocated in the PMPG link, which is the worthwhile system.

Communism was never about making everyone equal -
those at the top of the communist pyramid are outrageously rich -
a bit like capitalism.

Commies would steal all houses then give the best ones to the top party officials.

Back to top

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 99567

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #50 - Yesterday at 10:30pm

freediver wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 3:22pm:

Quote:

It might turn out for the better you know.

How so? The CCP has already killed about 100 million Chinese people. Mostly by trying to help them. What good could possibly come from letting them have their way with Taiwan?

I know exactly what the potential is, which is exactly why I am suggesting China should stop its imperialist posturing, and why I am asking you about China and Taiwan.

What is it with this generation of children so blithely rejecting democracy every time they don't get exactly what they want? Do you actually believe in benign dictatorship, or have you simply not thought that far ahead? "I don't like my parent's taxes being spent on the ABC, maybe a regime that has already killed 100 million people and counting would make me feel better".

If course not. JaSin believes in completely despotic dictatorships, everybody here knows that.

Now, China has elections. Are you suggesting they're not a democracy?

How so?

Back to top

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 54126
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #51 - Today at 8:52am

Karnal wrote Yesterday at 10:30pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 3:22pm:

Quote:

It might turn out for the better you know.

How so? The CCP has already killed about 100 million Chinese people. Mostly by trying to help them. What good could possibly come from letting them have their way with Taiwan?

I know exactly what the potential is, which is exactly why I am suggesting China should stop its imperialist posturing, and why I am asking you about China and Taiwan.

What is it with this generation of children so blithely rejecting democracy every time they don't get exactly what they want? Do you actually believe in benign dictatorship, or have you simply not thought that far ahead? "I don't like my parent's taxes being spent on the ABC, maybe a regime that has already killed 100 million people and counting would make me feel better".

If course not. JaSin believes in completely despotic dictatorships, everybody here knows that.

Now, China has elections. Are you suggesting they're not a democracy?

How so?

Gawd you are a bloody ijit.

The Soviet Union had elections.So does Cuba, North Korea, Iran. So they must be democracies, eh??

How deep does your moronic streak go?
All the way down.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14282
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #52 - Today at 10:46am

Bobby. wrote Yesterday at 10:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 5:25pm:

Cease being so ideological like FD; communism..... capitalism, who cares, China is neither; and it's the system which creates prosperity for all, as advocated in the PMPG link, which is the worthwhile system.

Communism was never about making everyone equal -
those at the top of the communist pyramid are outrageously rich -
a bit like capitalism.

Commies would steal all houses then give the best ones to the top party officials.

Cease being so ideolo.....oh never mind.

You remain incapable of addressing the substance of the posts you imagine you are replying to.

Note: neither the Chinese term 'common prosperity', nor the Oz based group 'Public Money:Public Good', involve 'making everyone equal'.

I can see why some on Ozpol insult your intelligence... though in your defence 'making everyone equal' is an ignorant RW construct often employed to avoid cosidering how governments can eradicate entreched, systemic poverty.

Back to top

IP Logged

Jasin

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 53786
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #53 - Today at 11:01am

Lenin's Communism was designed 'for the people' as are Re-Publics.
In other words, political power in the control and management of the people at large. But as always, Politics in the northern hemisphere always falls into a minority population of people over the non political mass.
I only know of South America where the Workers owning a factory or business and are in overall power that employ management's to run them administrative. Sunrise in Australia is ruled by the Farmers, not the Admin or factory workers.
So the intention of Communism and other Northern Hemisphere political styles is there, but fail to achieve this.
Even USA politics. With the majority of population being of the Art world. The minority populating Political has to buy it's votes and voting is not mandatory. We saw the Democrats spend triple of what Trump Republicans did and they bought the Media to blockade any Trump promo let alone attack Trump. In essence, not everyone voting also makes the American system flawed.

Australia has the best system. Not just because it is the Windsor system. But because everyone, political or not - has to take responsibility and vote.
Alas, for northern Communism, Democracies, etc. They always fall into minority power and these tend to over-achiever into absolutism of just negating or corrupting the vote aspect of being of any real importance.

I guess this is where Australia comes into the global picture of where the bottom of the pyramid hold the political power for the first time in history. Communism could succeed here, as well as a true Republic etc.

Back to top

AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 51709
At my desk.

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #54 - Today at 11:03am

Quote:

Lenin's Communism was designed 'for the people' as are Re-Publics.
In other words, political power in the control and management of the people at large. But as always, Politics in the northern hemisphere always falls into a minority population of people over the non political mass.

Not always. The reason communism is associated with violent oppression and mass murder is because people don't vote for it. It has to be imposed on them. So only violent mass murderers ever achieve it. The CCP had to kill about 20 million Chinese people to set up a communist state, in addition to hiding like cowards and letting the Japanese rape and pillage their way across the country in WWII. Their death toll has now reached about 100 million.

Even the Chinese communist party has abandoned communism.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53786 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #55 - Today at 11:07am Yes. And Gillard nearly forced Australians to vote again because she didn't like a Hung Parliament AS VOTED BY THE PEOPLE. She nearly crossed that line.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53786 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #56 - Today at 11:09am All Northern Hemisphere politics cross that line. The ESTABLISHMENT of British politics also did in regards to going against the People's vote on Brexit. This is why Theresa May resigned in disgust.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14282
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #57 - Today at 11:40am

freediver wrote Yesterday at 9:03pm:

thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:28pm:

freediver wrote Yesterday at 3:55pm:

Quote:

Vast majority?

Yes. I provided a link in case you were confused.

Not confused: the non-DPP voters who elected the (anti-independence) majority in parliament (which is blocking the DPP's independence push) don't want independence which will result in the destruction of the island ....and worse: you have been warned by China who is already strong enough to cause the Pentagon to reconsider....

Quote:

FD As the KMT supports the ROC as the only representative of China, it opposes both Chinese unification under the PRC and formal Taiwan independence.

What do you think that means, little pink?

It means the non-DPP voters who want peaceful reunification, not war, will have to convince the CCP they possess a superior governing ideology.

But time is running out for them: in a decade, over a billion people on the mainland will have a per capita income as high as the islanders, and an economy
50 times as large, with a PPP GDP double that of the US.

Game over.

If the Americans said...

Oh no: another FD question based on his democratic "freedom" ideology, which is sure to result in more GIGO....but let's read on....

Quote:

...they wanted to peacefully unify China and Taiwan into one democratic country, with the current Taiwanese government as the interim managers,....

That's a 'novel' scenario: the US is as committed to delusional democratic "freedom" as you and the DPP are, while US democracy itself displays the worst level of hyper-partisanship in the world...but let's read on:

Quote:

....and the CCP consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong, would you also describe them as being "China-friendly"?

Good try FD - and thanks for the laugh; GIGO takes some wonderful turns at times Cheesy

.

There are a number of ways of answering that question...

eg 'yes,

or

'no'.

But I'll be generous and answer a more straight-foward version of your question:

"If the Americans said they wanted to peacefully unify China and Taiwan, would you also describe (the non-DPP majority on Taiwan) as being "China-friendly"?.

No, if the US could achieve unification peacefully.

Yes: if the US can't achieve unification peacefully.

But you are (absurdly) positing the US CAN achieve unification peacefully.

Only the non-DPP majority on Taiwan can convince the mainlanders to adopt delusional 'democratic "freedom" ideology, peacefully.

Whereas the DPP are relying on the US to enforce Taiwan's permanent separation from China, with a view to UN membership.

But if the US crawls back into its hole when faced by a more powerful PLA, it's game over for the "freedom or death" DPP fools on the island.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Today at 11:49am by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 51709
At my desk.

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #58 - Today at 11:46am

Quote:

But you are (absurdly) positing the US CAN achieve unification peacefully.

Can the CCP achieve peaceful unification with Taiwan, without first turning China into a real democracy?

Quote:

and worse: you have been warned by China who is already strong enough to cause the Pentagon to reconsider....

Warned what? That they are going to kill another 100 million people if they don't get their way with Taiwan?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 14282
Gender: male

Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #59 - Today at 12:05pm

freediver wrote Today at 11:46am:

Can the CCP achieve peaceful RE-unification with Taiwan, without first turning China into a real democracy?

Yes; if the US butts out, the PLA can enforce an embargo on the island, cripple its economy and starve it into submission without heavy loss of life or property.

But the CCP want peaceful reunification, and they are building the people to people contacts to achieve it, despite DPP hindering such contacts.

Quote:

Warned what? That they are going to kill another 100 million people if they don't get their way with Taiwan?

Warned that if you dare attack the PLA in the Taiwan Straits, you will be a legitimate target wherever you are.

Times have changed since WW2 when Germany - too late to win - invented rockets.

Nowadays, anywhere on the globe is a (near instantaneous) target - a capacity possessed by both the Pentagon and the PLA.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Today at 12:14pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged