Australian Politics Forum - Taiwan's right to exist

Yadda

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #15 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:04pm

Quote:

The vast majority of Taiwan's citizens want Taiwan to (continue to be) independent of China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement

Unlike China, Taiwan is a democracy and the citizens are allowed to inform themselves, criticise the government and openly debate the issue.

They are not constantly spoonfed lies by the government like the citizens of China have to put up with.

The international community is increasingly supporting Taiwan's continued independence.

However, China still claims Taiwan as part of it's territory.

Some Taiwanese even claim China as part of Taiwan's territory.

IMAGE.....

'Mainland China' ???

Did you mean West Taiwan ?

That authoritarian FASCIST state ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Gnads

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #16 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:08pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 5:53pm:

The Brits did the right thing.
Hong Kong belonged to China.
Let's not forget that Hong Kong became the gateway for internationals to exploit the Chinese and turn them into drug addicts.

Now the only excuse of pumping Taiwanese independence is because of the ROC Nationalist Party 🎉🥳. That's the only difference. Beyond that. Cultural history, race and more has Taiwan as being Chinese... being 'China'.
Also, ROC states that they themselves are 'China' as well and rightful owners of the mainland... and even Mongolia.
It's something that other countries need to stay out of and let them settle for themselves.

Bullshit they did.

And the Chinese had Opium long before the brits knew what it was.

Quote:

The history of opium use in China spans over 1,300 years,

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"When you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It's only painful and difficult for others. The same applies when you are stupid." ~ Ricky Gervais

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53792 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #17 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:16pm Britain was a Drug Cartel in Hong Kong. Nothing more. But hey. Great Britain hasn't done well in Asia or Africa now.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53792 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #18 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:24pm Dinnertime. Might order some Communist Chinese takeaway here in Australia.
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Yadda

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #19 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:34pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 5:43pm:

......As for Communism? It's only failure is that it is compromised by Northern Hemisphere politics in general, where anything like a RePUBLIC as well, fails to empower the people as a whole (the mass) - only empowering the individuals at the top.

Australian Egalitarianism is much like what Communism originally aimed for.

But politics in the southern hemisphere succeeds for 'the people' more so than for the individuals.

So for Communism in China? You know - the thing that the USSR forced upon them to adopt or else.

Well it's the best it can do considering it's true cultural destiny is not to be a political nation of people at all.

It would be more justified to blame politics itself for what has happened in China.

Now.

Is Hong Kong really that bad now?

Bobby. wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 5:56pm:

As for Communism? It's only failure is that it is compromised by Northern Hemisphere politics in general?

Wow JaSin - you are awfully close to being on the cultural Marxist list. Embarrassed

WWW search....

reasons why 'true' socialism always fails

Google.......AI Overview

Quote:

Arguments for why socialism fails often cite issues with incentive structures, economic planning, and political and social consequences.

Critics contend that a lack of personal profit and reward removes the incentive to work hard, while centralized control and bureaucracy lead to inefficiency, shortages, and a disconnect between planners and the public.

Furthermore, many historical examples have been linked to political repression and a decline in living standards.

Economic criticisms

Lack of incentives: When rewards for hard work and success are removed, critics argue that there is less motivation for individuals and businesses to be productive or innovative.

Inefficient central planning: Government planners, unable to process vast amounts of information, may be unable to set prices and allocate resources efficiently, leading to shortages and surpluses.

Absence of profit and loss: A system without a profit-and-loss mechanism can't effectively measure or reward economic performance, making it difficult to identify and correct inefficiencies.

Distorted price signals: Without market-driven prices, the economy loses a critical tool for transmitting information about scarcity and demand, which hinders rational decision-making.

Political and social criticisms

Bureaucracy and inefficiency: Centralized control can lead to a large, inefficient bureaucracy that is slow to respond to the needs of the public.

Suppression of individual rights: Critics point to historical cases where socialist governments have used oppressive tactics, such as imprisonment and violence, to suppress dissent.

Erosion of living standards: Some historical socialist experiments have resulted in a decline in productivity and a lower standard of living for the population compared to market-based economies.

"Not-real-socialism" defense: A recurring argument is that when socialist systems fail, proponents often claim it wasn't "real" socialism, which they argue is a way to avoid accountability for past failures, according to The Cornell Review and Forbes.

Also, there is no integrity [tolerance.....of truth] in the socialist model.

Socialist models, are driven by a 'collective' aspiration for egalitarianism.

Socialism......its i great idea.......but lacking any tolerance of [a requisite] constructive criticism.......and a spirit of integrity.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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kU6mdn74 New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #20 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:38pm Isn't Taiwan place where NZ Maori came from?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 114383 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #21 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:45pm kU6mdn74 wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:38pm: Isn't Taiwan place where NZ Maori came from? No - they came from Pacific islands like Fiji, Tonga etc - there are 100s of small islands.
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kU6mdn74 New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 19	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #22 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 7:03pm Google "Do Maori descend from Taiwan?" Quote: Evidence indicates that their ancestry (as part of the larger group of Austronesian peoples) stretches back 5,000 years, to the indigenous peoples of Taiwan. Māori people - Wikipedia Wikipedia › Māori_people
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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #23 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 7:32pm

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 5:53pm:

Now the only excuse of pumping Taiwanese independence

Newsflash Jasin. Taiwan is independent, whether you pump it or not. The CCP does not control it. The only thing I am pumping is the avoidance of WWIII over petty Chinese imperialism.

Quote:

is because of the ROC Nationalist Party 🎉🥳. That's the only difference.

Did you miss the part about the 100 million Chinese people killed by the CCP? I challenge you to name a single regime that has killed more people than the regime you want foisted upon the Taiwanese. The CCP regime is worse than the holocaust. Worse even than the Russian communists.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53792 Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #24 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 7:49pm kU6mdn74 wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:38pm: Isn't Taiwan place where NZ Maori came from? Yes. Genetic study has sourced all Polynesians to Taiwan and surrounding areas to a lesser extent. Might explain why China gets good favour in Oceania next door?
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Jasin

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #25 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 7:56pm

freediver wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 7:32pm:

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 5:53pm:

Now the only excuse of pumping Taiwanese independence

Newsflash Jasin. Taiwan is independent, whether you pump it or not. The CCP does not control it. The only thing I am pumping is the avoidance of WWIII over petty Chinese imperialism.

Quote:

is because of the ROC Nationalist Party 🎉🥳. That's the only difference.

Did you miss the part about the 100 million Chinese people killed by the CCP? I challenge you to name a single regime that has killed more people than the regime you want foisted upon the Taiwanese. The CCP regime is worse than the holocaust. Worse even than the Russian communists.

Point 1: Taiwanese independence from the mainland is only icing, not the cake and that icing is just a political difference with the Taiwanese difference being not so long ago as the same as was on the mainland.
You can just have the icing. I'll enjoy the cake.

Point 2: You are correct. 100 million lives lost. Is it still the highest in regards to percentage of population at the time in comparison to other nations or people?
Maybe they should have had some Black people to manage their lands and prevent a famine. Seems yellow people are only good at cities.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #26 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 8:23pm

So despite the 100 million deaths caused by the CCP, you would still prefer them because the ABC is biased?

Would you wish this upon yourself, or only upon the people of Taiwan?

Do you think they are somehow genetically predisposed to want to be ruled by the most murderous regime in world history?

If 100 million deaths is just the icing, what exactly is the cake? The choice is not between the CCP and the holocaust, or the CCP and the Russian communists, or the CCP and some other murderous regime. The choice is between the CCP and the current Taiwanese government - a modern, progressive, liberal democracy. You can't fudge the numbers to make the CCP look good in comparison, even if you somehow factor in the ABC bias.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #27 - Nov 19^th, 2025 at 8:59pm

Despite the political incompetence of the CCP or even the ROC (or even archaic Western politics based on Rome & Athens) to prevent such death.
I say, let them both reunite in a more peaceful assimilation rather than the Korea/Vietnam type confliction, both of which caused a lot of death too and a repeated scenario which the American Democrats/Media pushed towards during the Biden term.
Why must the Taiwan/Mainland issue go down that path? It wasn't good for Vietnam or Korea - many died needlessly.
Why not take the more peaceful path untried? Who knows, it might work out for the better and Taiwan ROC might cause change in mainland CCP more than you think? It might even bring an end to the CCP itself?

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Yadda

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #28 - Nov 20^th, 2025 at 6:34am

Jasin wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 8:59pm:

Despite the political incompetence of the CCP or even the ROC (or even archaic Western politics based on Rome & Athens) to prevent such death.

I say, let them both reunite in a more peaceful assimilation rather than the Korea/Vietnam type confliction, both of which caused a lot of death too and a repeated scenario which the American Democrats/Media pushed towards during the Biden term.

Why must the Taiwan/Mainland issue go down that path? It wasn't good for Vietnam or Korea - many died needlessly.

Why not take the more peaceful path untried? Who knows, it might work out for the better and Taiwan ROC might cause change in mainland CCP more than you think? It might even bring an end to the CCP itself?

Please, someone....'Tell him he's dreaming!'

jasin,

In this world, the guy with the bigger stick, is the one who makes all of the rules.

Human history has taught us that.

Not so ?

We need a better system [of self governance].

But then, there is that guy with the bigger stick, will always turn up ! Tongue

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #29 - Nov 20^th, 2025 at 7:20am

Quote:

Despite the political incompetence of the CCP or even the ROC (or even archaic Western politics based on Rome & Athens) to prevent such death.

A lot of it was deliberate. The CCP are mass murderers, not just incompetent managers.

Quote:

I say, let them both reunite in a more peaceful assimilation rather than the Korea/Vietnam type confliction

Why? Are you assuming the only options are violent or peaceful unification? You do realise that the people of Taiwan don't actually want to be part of China right? Especially if it means the loss of democracy and all their rights. How exactly do you expect to achieve a "peaceful assimilation"? And why do you want it in the first place?

Do you realise that China would do a far better job at maintaining peace by not trying to "assimilate" the Taiwanese?

Quote:

Why must the Taiwan/Mainland issue go down that path?

You are the only one insisting on it. But if China does try to force itself on Taiwan, violence is inevitable, for the same reason that we would fight against any dictatorship that tried to destroy our freedoms and democracy.

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« Last Edit: Nov 20^th, 2025 at 7:41am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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