Australian Politics Forum - Taiwan's right to exist

Ajax

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #105 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:44pm

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:39pm:

Of course. What do you think we have been discussing in this thread?

This is what happens when the CCP isn't in control of what people are allowed to think:

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/01/16/most-people-in-taiwan-see-themselves-as-primarily-taiwanese-few-say-theyre-primarily-chinese/

Quote:

While the Chinese government views Taiwan as a breakaway province, only 3% of people in Taiwan think of themselves as primarily Chinese. Nearly three-in-ten (28%) think of themselves as both Taiwanese and Chinese, but the largest share by far (67%) see themselves as primarily Taiwanese.

Taiwan is part of China its written in international law.

What the US is doing is like arming Tasmania and telling it to break away from Australia.

No difference.

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #106 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:46pm

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:04pm:

Quote:

The vast majority of Taiwan's citizens want Taiwan to (continue to be) independent of China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement

Unlike China, Taiwan is a democracy and the citizens are allowed to inform themselves, criticise the government and openly debate the issue.

They are not constantly spoonfed lies by the government like the citizens of China have to put up with.

The international community is increasingly supporting Taiwan's continued independence.

However, China still claims Taiwan as part of it's territory.

Some Taiwanese even claim China as part of Taiwan's territory.

Our resident little pink even tried to claim that the popularity of the Taiwanese party that wants to overthrow the CCP shows that the Taiwanese people support the CCP, and she described the party in question as the "China friendly" one.

Quote:

Taiwan is part of China its written in international law.

Can you quote this law?

Quote:

What the US is doing is like arming Tasmania and telling it to break away from Australia.

Is this a reference to Taiwan? It is nothing at all like that. Taiwan has been an independent nation for generations. It is a democracy, and the people certainly do not want to be ruled by the corrupt, incompetent, murderous CCP.

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #107 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:43pm:

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:01pm:

Quote:

Xi wants peaceful reunification

Yeah, you said that before. Peaceful reunification after starving them out and killing anyone who stands in his way.

No - as he impressed on Trump in a recent phone call , Taiwan historically is Chinese territory, we can do it the easy way or the hard way.
YOUR choice.

This is what the CCP considers to be "peaceful unification"? Do as we tell you or die?

And you wonder why the Taiwanese don't even want to think of themselves as Chinese any more.

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Ajax

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #108 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:49pm

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Yadda wrote on Nov 19^th, 2025 at 6:04pm:

Quote:

The vast majority of Taiwan's citizens want Taiwan to (continue to be) independent of China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_independence_movement

Unlike China, Taiwan is a democracy and the citizens are allowed to inform themselves, criticise the government and openly debate the issue.

They are not constantly spoonfed lies by the government like the citizens of China have to put up with.

The international community is increasingly supporting Taiwan's continued independence.

However, China still claims Taiwan as part of it's territory.

Some Taiwanese even claim China as part of Taiwan's territory.

Our resident little pink even tried to claim that the popularity of the Taiwanese party that wants to overthrow the CCP shows that the Taiwanese people support the CCP, and she described the party in question as the "China friendly" one.

Quote:

Taiwan is part of China its written in international law.

Can you quote this law?

Quote:

What the US is doing is like arming Tasmania and telling it to break away from Australia.

Is this a reference to Taiwan? It is nothing at all like that. Taiwan has been an independent nation for generations. It is a democracy, and the people certainly do not want to be ruled by the corrupt, incompetent, murderous CCP.

I looked it up you better do the same and confirm it yourself dont trust what others say.

A bit like climate change dont you think!?!?!?

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51796 At my desk.	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #109 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:50pm Quote: I looked it up No you didn't, little pink.
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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11050 Australia Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #110 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:52pm freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:50pm: Quote: I looked it up No you didn't, little pink. HA HA jokes on you mate! Dont you know where to start?
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tallowood Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6180	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #111 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:09pm Taiwan's right to exist primarily due to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), the world's largest dedicated chip foundry.
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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11050 Australia Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #112 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:12pm tallowood wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:09pm: Taiwan's right to exist primarily due to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), the world's largest dedicated chip foundry. Trump has been trying to get them to move to the good old USA, but so far no good, although I think a small contingent has gone.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #113 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:23pm

freediver wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 1:46pm:

Can you quote this law?

UN res 2758:

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China, whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Just because the ROC retreated to Taiwan - which was part of China when they retreated from the mainland in 1949 - doesn't mean their successors can now claim independence from China.

Hence only 11 small countries still recognize pre 1971 Taiwan, despite the UN resolution adopted in 1971.

Do try to keep up.

Quote:

Taiwan has been an independent nation for generations.

Your errors exposed above; there is "only one legitimate representative of China to the United Nations", despite what the successors of the KMT want and the ROC claimed until recently.

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It is a democracy,

Not for many years:

(google)

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the ROC transitioned from a one-party state under martial law to a multi-party democracy, with democratically elected presidents beginning in 1996.

.......and now the Taiwan labour party is rejecting Lai's absurd and dangerous claims of sovereign independence.

....as absurd as the US red states who want to secede from the US.

Quote:

and the people certainly do not want to be ruled by the corrupt, incompetent, murderous CCP.

Wow - the vicious narrative of a 'freeedom or death" moron.

China is advancing prosperity for its vast population at the fastest rate in history.

While child poverty, youth crime and homelessness are increasing in 'democratic' Oz.

Do try to keep up.

Are you an ASPI goon?

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« Last Edit: Dec 1^st, 2025 at 10:07am by thegreatdivide »

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tallowood

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #114 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:24pm

Ajax wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:12pm:

tallowood wrote on Nov 30^th, 2025 at 2:09pm:

Taiwan's right to exist primarily due to Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC), the world's largest dedicated chip foundry.

Trump has been trying to get them to move to the good old USA, but so far no good, although I think a small contingent has gone.

It isn't just technology but also human skill.

Trump team wants Taiwan to train US chip plant workers.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/trump-team-negotiating-trade-deal-with-taiwan-that-could-help-train-us-workers-2025-11-26/

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 11050 Australia Gender:	Re: Taiwan's right to exist Reply #115 - Nov 30^th, 2025 at 6:04pm One of my work colleagues went to China to inspect machinery that will be delivered here. When I asked him what it was like over the phone he said, Australia compared to China we the Australians are backward thats how far they have progressed in technology. I have not seen this for myself but he is a reliable source.
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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #116 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:56am

Quote:

UN res 2758:

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China, whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Just because the ROC retreated to Taiwan - which was part of China when they retreated from the mainland in 1949 - doesn't mean their successors can now claim independence from China.

Nor does it mean they cannot. This is no less stupid than finding a law saying the Australian government is the only legitimate government of Australia, therefor it is also the government of New Zealand. You need to think for yourself here instead of mindlessly parroting idiotic CCP propaganda.

Quote:

Quote:

It is a democracy,

Not for many years:

(google)

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, the ROC transitioned from a one-party state under martial law to a multi-party democracy, with democratically elected presidents beginning in 1996.

Earth to little pink, this is saying that Taiwan is a democracy.

Do you actually believe that Xi's "submit or die" propaganda actually means "peaceful reunification"?

Quote:

What is says, in the context of that statement: ie an island of 25 million Chinese people

So why did you claim you were not talking about Taiwan after I pointed out that the CCP had barely changed the relative income between China and Taiwan over the last decade?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #117 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:04am

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 8:56am:

UN res 2758:

The resolution, passed on 25 October 1971, recognized the People's Republic of China (PRC) as "the only legitimate representative of China to the United Nations" and removed "the representatives of Chiang Kai-shek" (referring to the then Kuomintang regime as the dominant party in the Republic of China, whose central government had retreated to Taiwan from the mainland) from the United Nations.

Just because the ROC retreated to Taiwan - which was part of China when they retreated from the mainland in 1949 - doesn't mean their successors can now claim independence from China.

Nor does it mean they cannot.

Well, if a state which is part of a nation wants to secede from that nation which has "only one legitimate representative" at the UN, then that state will have to first get the agreement of the nation to secede, to obtain its acscension to the UN.

Quote:

This is no less stupid than finding a law saying the Australian government is the only legitimate government of Australia, therefor it is also the government of New Zealand. You need to think for yourself here instead of mindlessly parroting idiotic CCP propaganda.

Your error: NZ was never part of Oz.

Quote:

Earth to little pink, this is saying that Taiwan is a democracy.

You ignored the fact that from 1949 to 1996 it wasn't.

Quote:

Do you actually believe that Xi's "submit or die" propaganda actually means "peaceful reunification"?

"Don't promote separation" means the mainland is seeking peaceful reunification, otherwise the nation would have asserted its legal sovereignty in 1971 by force.

The only reason China hasn't asserted its legal sovereignty thus far is US military superiority, but the US will soon need to come to terms with China's right to assert its sovereignty as "the only lawful representative", which will require the US to wirhdraw its weapons from the island. The US is no longer certain it can defeat China, and that uncertainty will only increase in the next decades.

Quote:

So why did you claim you were not talking about Taiwan after I pointed out that the CCP had barely changed the relative income between China and Taiwan over the last decade?

China is still a 'developing' country, while the island has now achieved 1st world status - which means it's GDP growth rate - as with all developed economies - will slow relative to the mainland over the next decade, allowing the mainland to achieve per capita parity.

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freediver

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #118 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:24am

Quote:

Well, if a state which is part of a nation

But it isn't, little pink. And finding the word "China" in a UN resolution is not a licence to build whatever fantasy you want around the nation of China and insist it is written into UN law. Doing so merely demonstrates that you share the CCP's capacity for dangerous self delusion.

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Your error: NZ was never part of Oz.

So what? Are you agreeing with me that Taiwan was once part of China, but isn't now?

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You ignored the fact that from 1949 to 1996 it wasn't.

I ignored it because it is not relevant. Taiwan is a democracy. Australia is a democracy. France is a democracy. Even though none of them have been a democracy since the beginning of time. Only a complete moron would insist that we add that caveat every time we talk about democratic nations.

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"Don't promote separation" means the mainland is seeking peaceful reunification

You have already explained the CCP double speak about "peaceful" - starve them to death and slaughter anyone who gets in the way, then blame everyone else for the inevitable war. Repeatedly calling it peaceful won't make it come true, it merely highlights the CCP's capacity for self delusion, like when they convinced themselves and every other person in China to feel sorry for the poor starving Americans, while the Chinese were literally starving to death in the tens of millions as a result of the CCP's incompetent efforts to feed them all equally.

Quote:

China is still a 'developing' country, while the island has now achieved 1st world status - which means it's GDP growth rate - as with all developed economies - will slow relative to the mainland over the next decade, allowing the mainland to achieve per capita parity.

That is both false, and not an answer to the question asked:

Why did you claim you were not talking about Taiwan after I pointed out that the CCP had barely changed the relative income between China and Taiwan over the last decade?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Taiwan's right to exist
Reply #119 - Dec 1^st, 2025 at 1:11pm

freediver wrote on Dec 1^st, 2025 at 11:24am:

TGDWell, if a state which is part of a nation...

But it isn't, little pink.

It was during the Qing dynasty, reclaimed in 1945 after Japan's defeat, and reaffirmed in 1971 at the UN (res 2758).

Until you admit those facts, your posts will continue to be GIGO, based as they are on your delusional 'individual freedom' ideology.

Quote:

And finding the word "China" in a UN resolution is not a licence to build whatever fantasy you want.....

Too funny, coming from a delusional 'individual freedom' fantasist like yourself who is in the habit of ignoring UN resolutions

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TGDYour error: NZ was never part of Oz.

So what? Are you agreeing with me that Taiwan was once part of China, but isn't now?

No; your ideology-caused confusion is again exposed: you equated (incorrectly) "saying the Australian government is the only legitimate government of Australia, therefore it is also the government of New Zealand

with me (correctly) saying the Chinese government is the only legitimate government of China INCLUDING Taiwan which IS part of China, as noted above.

ie "It was (recognized) during the Qing dynasty, reclaimed in 1945 after Japan's defeat, and reaffirmed in 1971 at the UN (res 2758)."

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I ignored it because it is not relevant. Taiwan is a democracy. Australia is a democracy. France is a democracy. Even though none of them have been a democracy since the beginning of time. Only a complete moron would insist that we add that caveat every time we talk about democratic nations.

Ok, it's a democracy.

And in Hong Kong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Hong_Kong#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20Hong...

On 20 December 2021, China's central government issued a white paper on its view of democracy in Hong Kong, which it framed as an executive-led governance arrangement designed to ensure Hong Kong's capacity and efficacy***.[89]: 186 According to this view, there is no single set of criteria for democracy and no single democratic model that is universally acceptable

*** and ability to deal with seccessionist 'individual freedom' fools from within, and external forces who want to overthrow China's legal government.

As for democracy, just ask Trump, who continually ignores the constitution in the US, or Netanyahu who wants to overrule the supreme court in Israel...

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You have already explained the CCP double speak about "peaceful" -

Not double-speak: Xi is even tolerating the US arming Taiwan - who is the aggressor?

Quote:

That is both false, and not an answer to the question asked:

You seem to think the island's per capita income will keep increasing as it has in the past - even while the US is stealing the productive capacity of the TSMC which is Taiwan's chief source of income - and that the mainland will never reach parity.

Quote:

Why did you claim you were not talking about Taiwan after I pointed out that the CCP had barely changed the relative income between China and Taiwan over the last decade?

Already answered.

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