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Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr (Read 2058 times)
MattE
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #60 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 2:46pm
 
My son goes to a private school and they won't employ teachers just based on their degree. They also want to see their HSC results and ATAR to confirm their grades in their degrees. Universities are degree factories these days and a bit DEI to put it bluntly.

All the teachers at my son's school know they are there because they were the best candidate, regardless of their skin colour or gender.

I wonder if the teachers at some other schools definitely know this? Or were they the 'quota' candidate?

See the issue with DEI?
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« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2025 at 2:58pm by MattE »  
 
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #61 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:09pm
 
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 2:46pm:
My son goes to a private school and they won't employ teachers just based on their degree. They also want to see their HSC results and ATAR to confirm their grades in their degrees. Universities are degree factories these days and a bit DEI to put it bluntly.

All the teachers at my son's school know they are there because they were the best candidate, regardless of their skin colour or gender.

I wonder if the teachers at some other schools definitely know this? Or were they the 'quota' candidate?

See the issue with DEI?


Private schools aren't a guarantee of a better educational result for children. Not always. In fact, many are out performed by public schools. I know because my wife and I looked extensively when our children reached school age.
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Leroy
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #62 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:19pm
 
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:09pm:
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 2:46pm:
My son goes to a private school and they won't employ teachers just based on their degree. They also want to see their HSC results and ATAR to confirm their grades in their degrees. Universities are degree factories these days and a bit DEI to put it bluntly.

All the teachers at my son's school know they are there because they were the best candidate, regardless of their skin colour or gender.

I wonder if the teachers at some other schools definitely know this? Or were they the 'quota' candidate?

See the issue with DEI?


Private schools aren't a guarantee of a better educational result for children.
Not always. In fact, many are out performed by public schools. I know because my wife and I looked extensively when our children reached school age.


A good way to look at it, its the environment that allows your child to get the best education. If your child does like the school they are in, private or public it will reduce the quality of their education. I personally think the larger the school the poorer the education, too small and the lack of resources.
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lee
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #63 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:36pm
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 1:09pm:
lee wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 12:59pm:
greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 12:51pm:
Racism 101


So it is racism to hire on merit. Like maths are racist. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Maybe don't start drinking so early in the day, lee.

This is racist: "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"



If I see a white, colour skin indeterminate pilot, I hope like hell they are the best qualified. Wink
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MattE
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #64 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:18pm
 
He simply used the example of a black pilot in reference to DEI employment policies. He didn't say he didn't want to see black pilots. He actually said he would like to see THE BEST pilots, without considering their racial background, gender etc. The best qualified.

So no, he was not a bigot.
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greggerypeccary
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #65 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:22pm
 
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:18pm:
He simply used the example of a black pilot in reference to DEI employment policies. He didn't say he didn't want to see black pilots. He actually said he would like to see THE BEST pilots, without considering their racial background, gender etc. The best qualified.

So no, he was not a bigot.


He didn't have to.

What he said was still racist.


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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #66 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:24pm
 
Charlie Kirk equivalent to Horst Wessel. (not Rinus van der Lubbe)
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Frank
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #67 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:45pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:24pm:
Charlie Kirk equivalent to Horst Wessel. (not Rinus van der Lubbe)

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy



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greggerypeccary
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #68 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:48pm
 
Jovial Monk wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:24pm:
Charlie Kirk equivalent to Horst Wessel. (not Rinus van der Lubbe)


Indeed.

Nazi propaganda mythologized details of Wessel’s death and turned him into the party’s most famous martyr. Wessel was celebrated in several propagandistic books, films, and public ceremonies. In addition, Wessel had written lyrics to a song that became the Nazi Party anthem after his death. The Nazis used Wessel’s legend to celebrate their ideals of political violence and self-sacrifice—and to encourage others to fight and die for the Nazi movement. His death was also used to rationalize attacks on Communists and other targets of the Nazi Party.
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #69 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 5:17pm
 
Leroy wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:19pm:
Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 3:09pm:
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 2:46pm:
My son goes to a private school and they won't employ teachers just based on their degree. They also want to see their HSC results and ATAR to confirm their grades in their degrees. Universities are degree factories these days and a bit DEI to put it bluntly.

All the teachers at my son's school know they are there because they were the best candidate, regardless of their skin colour or gender.

I wonder if the teachers at some other schools definitely know this? Or were they the 'quota' candidate?

See the issue with DEI?


Private schools aren't a guarantee of a better educational result for children.
Not always. In fact, many are out performed by public schools. I know because my wife and I looked extensively when our children reached school age.


A good way to look at it, its the environment that allows your child to get the best education. If your child does like the school they are in, private or public it will reduce the quality of their education. I personally think the larger the school the poorer the education, too small and the lack of resources.


Large schools tend to have more and sometimes better resources than smaller ones because there are more students from which the school can receive voluntary fee contributions. Additionally, the amount of funding a public school receives from the state government is directly proportional to the size of the student population. Otherwise you could have small schools with less than 50 students receiving more funding than schools with 700 students.

With regard to the quality of education, a large part of that comes down to who is teaching the children. Contrary to popular belief, private school teachers are NOT paid more than their public school colleagues. In fact, more often than not, the opposite is true except in a rare handful of cases. Public school teachers get paid more and are generally more attractive to most entering the profession. Most private schools are religious, and so attract teachers because of faith to a large degree - although not always. The NSW Education Standards Authority (NESA) sets the overarching curriculum framework based on the Australian Curriculum, which public and private schools in NSW must follow. Private schools may employ different teaching methodologies, but the curriculums (i.e. what must be taught in each subject) are pretty standard.
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Armchair_Politician
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #70 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 5:18pm
 
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 4:18pm:
He simply used the example of a black pilot in reference to DEI employment policies. He didn't say he didn't want to see black pilots. He actually said he would like to see THE BEST pilots, without considering their racial background, gender etc. The best qualified.

So no, he was not a bigot.


The intent of his statement is clear - he is less trustful of black pilots based solely upon their skin colour. It's quite obvious.
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #71 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 6:52pm
 
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 12:50pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 9:20am:
MattE wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 8:37am:
I keep hearing leftists say Charlie Kirk was a racist and bigot. Yet they provide no evidence to back up what they say.

Can you provide any evidence he was racist and bigoted? By this, I don't mean your opinion, but actual evidence from what Charlie Kirk has said and/or done.


Would video of him saying things like "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"?

How about him saying black women like Michelle Obama, Joy Reid, and Sheila Jackson Lee "do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot." when talking about college admissions?

What about him saying that "We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s." and calling any progress made by black people as a whole or even individuals is DEI.

Or is that just Christian values?


Those quotes are taken out of context.

He spoke those words in the context of DEI admissions and hiring policies, where preferential treatment is given based on race, gender, sexuality etc, and not on academic merit or actual skill.

He was saying we should have a world where DEI doesn't exist, that way when you do see a pilot no matter what their race or gender, no one thinks about "were they employed based on DEI policies ".

Same for all jobs.


Kirk's comments are racist because they rest on a blanket assumption that a person's competence in a professional role, whether as a pilot or surgeon, is determined not by their training, qualifications, or individual merit, but by their skin colour.

He isn't merely "criticising DEI", he's pushing a racist narrative that black people in elite or high-stakes professions are inherently less trustworthy. His invocation of DEI is nothing more than a fig leaf to normalise racial stereotyping.

If you've decided that this somehow isn't racist, then there's little point in continuing with you. You've chosen your truth, and it conveniently aligns with what you want to believe rather than what is real.
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #72 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 7:06pm
 
The trouble is, just like quotas in politics - you have no way of knowing if ANY of your pilots actually is the best for the job..

Remember Yeager when he commanded the US Air Force Astronaut Program (separate from NASA at that time and the US Navy had one, too), when pressure was put on him to accept a Black pilot ...who - on all criteria - was NOT up to the standard required - and Yeager refused.

I prefer my pilots to not be Quota bunnies... remember my once lady pilot given the left seat by the buy with one more shoulder stripe - and when we landed at Mascot in a blustery wind - she did a good job of getting us down three times.  No fault there... she did well.

... this is Captain Beau speaking.. I'm miffed with my ex-lover taking up with another man, and I'm going to make a statement about it by running his house through with my plane... I hope that won't inconvenience any of you ... and please - I'm trying to keep this a secret ...
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Leroy
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #73 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 7:39pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 6:52pm:
Kirk's comments are racist because they rest on a blanket assumption that a person's competence in a professional role, whether as a pilot or surgeon, is determined not by their training, qualifications, or individual merit, but by their skin colour.

He isn't merely "criticising DEI", he's pushing a racist narrative that black people in elite or high-stakes professions are inherently less trustworthy. His invocation of DEI is nothing more than a fig leaf to normalise racial stereotyping.

If you've decided that this somehow isn't racist, then there's little point in continuing with you. You've chosen your truth, and it conveniently aligns with what you want to believe rather than what is real.


I don't know if you are just trying to out stupid greg but you are calling Kirk racist because he explores what people think, read his words again and you will see (if you actually look). He is talking about does freedom of speech spread to thought crime.

Quote:
KOLVET: We've all been in the back of a plane when the turbulence hits or when you're flying through a storm and you're like, "I'm so glad I saw the guy with the right stuff and the square jaw get into the cockpit before we took off. And I feel better now, thinking about that."

    KIRK: You wanna go thought crime? I'm sorry. If I see a Black pilot, I'm gonna be like, "Boy, I hope he's qualified."

    KOLVET: But you wouldn't have done that before!

    KIRK: That's not an immediate … that's not who I am. That's not what I believe.


I know putting his words into context destroys your racist theory but when you are looking down a barrel don't yell fire.
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Frank
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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #74 - Sep 14th, 2025 at 10:27pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 14th, 2025 at 6:52pm:
Kirk's comments are racist because they rest on a blanket assumption that a person's competence in a professional role, whether as a pilot or surgeon, is determined not by their training, qualifications, or individual merit, but by their skin colour.

He isn't merely "criticising DEI", he's pushing a racist narrative that black people in elite or high-stakes professions are inherently less trustworthy. His invocation of DEI is nothing more than a fig leaf to normalise racial stereotyping.

If you've decided that this somehow isn't racist, then there's little point in continuing with you. You've chosen your truth, and it conveniently aligns with what you want to believe rather than what is real.

Nonsense. The comments were made in the context of DEI.
When people are given preferential treatment BECAUSE of their race, sex, or other 'diversity' attributes it is perfectly reasonable to ask what proportion of merit was lacking for which the DEI  preferment was making up.
For you to characterise such questioning as wacist is stupid and lazy. You effectively rule any questioning of racial or other DEI preferment  verboten.
Lazy stupid and deeply sinister.

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