Australian Politics Forum - Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr

greggerypeccary

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #45 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:51pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:50pm:

SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 9:20am:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 8:37am:

I keep hearing leftists say Charlie Kirk was a racist and bigot. Yet they provide no evidence to back up what they say.

Can you provide any evidence he was racist and bigoted? By this, I don't mean your opinion, but actual evidence from what Charlie Kirk has said and/or done.

Would video of him saying things like "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"?

How about him saying black women like Michelle Obama, Joy Reid, and Sheila Jackson Lee "do not have brain processing power to be taken seriously. You have to go steal a white person's slot." when talking about college admissions?

What about him saying that "We made a huge mistake when we passed the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s." and calling any progress made by black people as a whole or even individuals is DEI.

Or is that just Christian values?

Those quotes are taken out of context.

He spoke those words in the context of DEI admissions and hiring policies, where preferential treatment is given based on race, gender, sexuality etc, and not on academic merit or actual skill.

Racism 101

He was a racist prick.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20749 Gender:	Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr Reply #46 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:59pm greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:51pm: Racism 101 So it is racism to hire on merit. Like maths are racist.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #47 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:09pm

lee wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:59pm:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 12:51pm:

Racism 101

So it is racism to hire on merit. Like maths are racist. Grin

Maybe don't start drinking so early in the day, lee.

This is racist: "If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

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MattE Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 505 Gender:	Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr Reply #48 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #49 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:36pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

Thanks.

Racist AND sexist.

Moreover, it's pretty rich coming from someone like Kirk who supports and defends Trump.

Nobody in Trump's cabinet is qualified for their jobs - they were all hired for their loyalty, not on merit.

Why didn't Kirk ever criticise Trump for that?

Why didn't he ever say "If I see a fall-down drunk alcoholic from Fox News in the Pentagon, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

Or, "If I see an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist who eats roadkill in Health & Human Services, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

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Captain Nemo

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #50 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

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MattE

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #51 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #52 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:01pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

You'd be wrong, because for roles like working in ATC, for example, candidates are selected for training based on the same criteria and are assessed against the same criteria. They are not given their ATC licence unless they meet the same standards. While a certain number positions may be reserved for certain groups (e.g. women or minorities), they still have to meet the same standards.

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MattE

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #53 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:14pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:01pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

You'd be wrong, because for roles like working in ATC, for example, candidates are selected for training based on the same criteria and are assessed against the same criteria. They are not given their ATC licence unless they meet the same standards. While a certain number positions may be reserved for certain groups (e.g. women or minorities), they still have to meet the same standards.

What is the point of the reservation then?

What is the point of even having a competitive job application process if simply having a ticket is all that is required?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #54 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:17pm

I prefer my pilots to be chosen for their skills, training, native ability and experience.

You can teach monkeys to fly - and there is no more reason to forcibly include minorities than there is to forcibly include more women into politics or anything else. It is purely on merit.

We just want people who are best at the job - not seat fillers.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #55 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:23pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:14pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:01pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

You'd be wrong, because for roles like working in ATC, for example, candidates are selected for training based on the same criteria and are assessed against the same criteria. They are not given their ATC licence unless they meet the same standards. While a certain number positions may be reserved for certain groups (e.g. women or minorities), they still have to meet the same standards.

What is the point of the reservation then?

What is the point of even having a competitive job application process if simply having a ticket is all that is required?

The point is to get these minority groups into these jobs that traditionally they have not been employed in. It's like getting more women into becoming pilots. Or more men becoming Kingergarten teachers. Or black people into jobs that were traditionally done by white people. It's about giving them opportunities they otherwise wouldn't think existed. But as I said, they still have to meet the same standards, hence why female pilots are no less competent than their male counterparts.

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 152614 Gender:	Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr Reply #56 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:23pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:17pm: I prefer my pilots to be chosen for their skills, training, native ability and experience. They are.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #57 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:25pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:17pm:

I prefer my pilots to be chosen for their skills, training, native ability and experience.

You can teach monkeys to fly - and there is no more reason to forcibly include minorities than there is to forcibly include more women into politics or anything else. It is purely on merit.

We just want people who are best at the job - not seat fillers.

You may be able to teach monkeys to fly, but you can't teach them how to deal with complex emergency situations. Female trainee pilots go through the same scenarios and assessments as males. It's not about forcing minorities into jobs, it's about opening up opportunities for them.

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MattE

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #58 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:27pm

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:23pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:14pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:01pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

You'd be wrong, because for roles like working in ATC, for example, candidates are selected for training based on the same criteria and are assessed against the same criteria. They are not given their ATC licence unless they meet the same standards. While a certain number positions may be reserved for certain groups (e.g. women or minorities), they still have to meet the same standards.

What is the point of the reservation then?

What is the point of even having a competitive job application process if simply having a ticket is all that is required?

The point is to get these minority groups into these jobs that traditionally they have not been employed in. It's like getting more women into becoming pilots. Or more men becoming Kingergarten teachers. Or black people into jobs that were traditionally done by white people. It's about giving them opportunities they otherwise wouldn't think existed. But as I said, they still have to meet the same standards, hence why female pilots are no less competent than their male counterparts.

So can you explain why some people are getting into teaching degrees with low HSC and ATAR scores?

How is that good? To reduce the entry standards to get the quota people through the door?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Charlie Kirk is no hero or martyr
Reply #59 - Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:35pm

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:27pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:23pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:14pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 2:01pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:55pm:

Captain Nemo wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:40pm:

MattE wrote on Sep 14^th, 2025 at 1:24pm:

This is what Charlie Kirk actually said when it came to his "black pilot" comment. You be the judge:

So, if United Airlines has a target of at least 40% of their pilots being Black or women... why did Charlie focus on the black bit?

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified."

Can you see that people would look at that statement and assume he was being racist?

They could see it as racist if they ignored the context (either willingly or ignorantly).

I personally believe DEI hiring and admissions policies are racist because it perpetuates the "bigotry of low expectations" mindset when it comes to minority groups.

It also doesn't help them feel pride when it comes across they were hired to "fill a 40 percent quota" and not purely based on merit.

Being anti-DEI is the least racist in my opinion, because it means people, no matter what their background, are being employed or given university admission based on merit and nothing else.

You'd be wrong, because for roles like working in ATC, for example, candidates are selected for training based on the same criteria and are assessed against the same criteria. They are not given their ATC licence unless they meet the same standards. While a certain number positions may be reserved for certain groups (e.g. women or minorities), they still have to meet the same standards.

What is the point of the reservation then?

What is the point of even having a competitive job application process if simply having a ticket is all that is required?

The point is to get these minority groups into these jobs that traditionally they have not been employed in. It's like getting more women into becoming pilots. Or more men becoming Kingergarten teachers. Or black people into jobs that were traditionally done by white people. It's about giving them opportunities they otherwise wouldn't think existed. But as I said, they still have to meet the same standards, hence why female pilots are no less competent than their male counterparts.

So can you explain why some people are getting into teaching degrees with low HSC and ATAR scores?

How is that good?

My wife is a school principal - she knows all about this and we actually talked about this a couple of years ago. It has absolutely nothing to do with DEI or minorities or anything like that. It is basically desperation, borne out of a critical shortage of qualified teachers. Entry requirements for the teaching degrees were lowered in an attempt to attract more people to the profession. Obviously, you only get the degree if you pass the same assessments as everyone else, but it's just about trying to fill vacancies.

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