Australian Politics Forum - Israel's right to exist

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16038 Gender:	Re: Israel's right to exist Reply #60 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:33pm freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:24pm: Kurdistan is not a state. Why is Kurdistan not a state? With 30 to 45 million Kurds, by whatever right you grant to Jews, why don't Kurds have the same right to a state to defend them? By your own standards, why does Kurdistan not have a right to exist?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #61 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:39pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:24pm:

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The UN determines that a state exists through its recognition

No it does not. The UN is barely relevant. That's why states managed to exist prior to the UN.

So, how is it that Australia exists?

Do you think our borders, our existence as a nation-state, would be respected if the UN did not recognise Australia as a state?

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freediver

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #62 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:24pm:

Kurdistan is not a state.

Why is Kurdistan not a state?

Some kind of accident of history. Why do you ask?

What do you think is the purpose of recognising a state's right exist?

Quote:

So, how is it that Australia exists?

Are you saying you do not know how this country came into existence? Or that you think Australia only exists by the whim of a UN decree?

Quote:

Do you think our borders, our existence as a nation-state, would be respected if the UN did not recognise Australia as a state?

Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #63 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:54pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:33pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:24pm:

Kurdistan is not a state.

Why is Kurdistan not a state?

Some kind of accident of history. Why do you ask?

So, an accident, then.

By your standards, is that how right to exist comes into being?

Does Israel have a right to exist by accident?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 88646 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Israel's right to exist Reply #64 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:56pm Neither is Palestine - but Kurdistan has a chance given that its population is majority Kurds. You can see why the existing locality countries as created don't want to give it up... https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/KurdistanMap.webp
Back to top	Kurdistan_.png (33 KB \| 2 ) “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16038 Gender:	Re: Israel's right to exist Reply #65 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:57pm freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm: Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist. And if a foreign state successfully annexed the land formerly known as Australia, would Australia exist?
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #66 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:59pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:56pm:

Neither is Palestine - but Kurdistan has a chance given that its population is majority Kurds.

You can see why the existing locality countries as created don't want to give it up...

https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/KurdistanMap.webp

How is that relevant if Kurdistan has a right to exist?

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freediver

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #67 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist.

And if a foreign state successfully annexed the land formerly known as Australia, would Australia exist?

No Meister.

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #68 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm

blip

Well - you see - Australia became a nation because of majority Australians here.. how is it that you imagine all other nations came about? China is where the Chinese lived... Russia is where the Russians lived... Germany was where the Germans lived.... France was where the French lived.... Kurdistan is where the Kurds lived ....

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Kurdistan__001.png (33 KB | 2 )

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #69 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:06pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist.

And if a foreign state successfully annexed the land formerly known as Australia, would Australia exist?

No Meister.

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

No state asserts its right to exist in law... Not Israel nor, even, Australia.

Why else do you think every Australian prime minister since Curtin has crawled on all fours to every post-WW2 US president for protection?

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« Last Edit: Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:18pm by MeisterEckhart »

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16038 Gender:	Re: Israel's right to exist Reply #70 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:10pm Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm: Well - you see - Australia became a nation because of majority Australians here.. If, in an alternate universe, the west was a French state, the north was a Dutch-Indonesian state, and the southeast was a British state, would Australia exist?
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freediver

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #71 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:47pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:06pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist.

And if a foreign state successfully annexed the land formerly known as Australia, would Australia exist?

No Meister.

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

No state asserts its right to exist in law... Not Israel nor, even, Australia.

Why else do you think every Australian prime minister since Curtin has crawled on all fours to every post-WW2 US president for protection?

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #72 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:55pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:47pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:06pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 7:02pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:57pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 6:42pm:

Sure. The UN could be wound up tomorrow. Australia would continue to exist.

And if a foreign state successfully annexed the land formerly known as Australia, would Australia exist?

No Meister.

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

No state asserts its right to exist in law... Not Israel nor, even, Australia.

Why else do you think every Australian prime minister since Curtin has crawled on all fours to every post-WW2 US president for protection?

What do you think is the point of recognising a state's right to exist?

You have a child's understanding of politics.

No state has a right to exist. No state asserts the right to exist.

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freediver

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #73 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 8:01pm

And yet people talk about a state's right to exist all the time. Why do you think they do that Meister?

Israel asserts its right to exist. So does Australia. So does every nation that defends its right to exist. Which is every nation that still manages to exist. It does not happen by accident.

I am not asking you if the paperwork is correct Meister. I am asking you if you get the point. Do you?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #74 - Sep 15^th, 2025 at 8:06pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2025 at 8:01pm:

And yet people talk about a state's right to exist all the time. Why do you think they do that Meister?

Israel asserts its right to exist. So does Australia. So does every nation that defends its right to exist. Which is every nation that still manages to exist. It does not happen by accident.

'People' only talk about a state's right to exist in terms of Israel... And those 'people' are from the West.

Israel, as a state, does not assert its right to exist... nor does Australia.

Israel, and Australia, exist by fiat.

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