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Israel's right to exist (Read 2510 times)
MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #120 - Sep 17th, 2025 at 10:28am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 17th, 2025 at 10:12am:
Ah. So no-one has the right under international law to destroy a state, but a state cannot have the right to exist because that denies other states the right to grant their citizens, under local law, the right to destroy another state?

I see I'm going to have to respond to you as if you were chronologically a teenager.

Freediver is a fool. Does Freediver have the right to be a fool?

If no, then Freediver is a fool de facto.

If yes, by what authority does Freediver have the right to be a fool?
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #121 - Sep 17th, 2025 at 10:47am
 
The closest approximation to the argument against a state's right to exist was the end of the divine right of kings to rule.

In the English Parliament in 1689, the Bill of Rights was enacted, which entrenched the principle that sovereignty lay with Parliament - i.e. the state - that it was not bestowed on the monarch by divine prerogative.

Since then, (sovereign) states acknowledge the de facto existence of other (sovereign) states.

No state acknowledges that it, or any other state, exists by right.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #122 - Sep 17th, 2025 at 12:00pm
 
Had the Arab states acceded to Kissinger's demands that they recognise Israel's right to exist, the question would have been: by what authority does Israel have a right to exist?

Kissinger's answer would almost certainly have been, "by the Arab states' recognition of Israel's right to exist" - i.e. because the Arab states say it does.

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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #123 - Sep 17th, 2025 at 12:12pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 17th, 2025 at 12:00pm:
Had the Arab states acceded to Kissinger's demands that they recognise Israel's right to exist, the question would have been: by what authority does Israel have a right to exist?

Kissinger's answer would almost certainly have been, "by the Arab states' recognition of Israel's right to exist" - i.e. because the Arab states say it does.


Of course, Kissinger, as a supremely accomplished diplomat, knew well that no Arab state, nor any state, would formally recognise Israel's right to exist... not even the US, despite its politicians and diplomats having used the term publicly many times.

What Kissinger was playing for was creating the illusion that the Arab states would not recognise Israel's existence de facto (which they were willing to do) by disingenuously wrapping it in sacral language and betting useful idiots would miss the distinction and assume that recognising Israel's right to exist is the same as recognising Israel's de facto existence.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Israel's right to exist
Reply #124 - Sep 18th, 2025 at 9:29am
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on Sep 17th, 2025 at 12:12pm:
What Kissinger was playing for was creating the illusion that the Arab states would not recognise Israel's existence de facto (which they were willing to do) by disingenuously wrapping it in sacral language and betting useful idiots would miss the distinction and assume that recognising Israel's right to exist is the same as recognising Israel's de facto existence.

On this, Kissinger succeeded.
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