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the problem of aging (Read 601 times)
freediver
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the problem of aging
Aug 31st, 2025 at 11:27am
 
I am reading The Third Chimpanzee, one of Jared Diamond's earlier books. He points out a fundamental challenge that modern medicine faces in preventing or reversing ageing.

He makes an interesting parallel with cars. Cheaper modern petrol cars are only designed to last 10 to 20 years, and to 200,000 to 300,000km. The life can be extended, but at some point it becomes so unreliable, unpleasant to drive and so costly to maintain that you are better off replacing it. This is a strategic decision made in the design of the car as a whole, and the same decision goes into the design of every component. Making each component last longer costs money and probably additional weight, so there are always tradeoffs involved. Each component is designed to either last reliably up to the design life of the car as a whole, or to be easy and cheap to replace several times during the useful life. There is no point spending extra money or using extra weight to make a component more reliable if it gets discarded because the rest of the car falls apart. But if a component is so dodgy that it is likely to reduce the life of the car, it is probably worth spending the extra money on it.

Evolution has 'designed' all living things with the same tradeoffs. Making and maintaining bodies that last a long time costs more energy - both upfront and in maintenance. So at some point it is better to replace it. Hence reproduction. There is always a tradeoff between energy spent on reproduction and energy spent of self maintenance and longevity. This is why nothing really lasts forever (though the method of replacement can look very different).

The human biological strategy is for long life and high investment in a small number of offspring. Humans are unique in that females generally live well past their reproductive age. This is part of the strategy of child rearing - women must continue caring for children long after they are born. It is also part of communal lifestyle, in particular assisting with the raising of grandchildren, nieces and nephews etc. In additional, hunter-gatherer tribes  store a lot of information, without the benefit of writing. Old people come in handy there also. This is why grandparents are naturally inclined to want to 'help'.

Back to medicine. The difficulty faced by medical researchers is that aging is not simply controlled by a biological switch they need to find, just as car life is not deliberately reduced by a sinister executive who wants to force you to discard a perfectly good one so you buy another. Like the cheap car, every single component is simply not built to last beyond a useful life span. So once you get beyond 80 or so, literally everything slowly falls apart. All of our internal biological systems for maintaining and replacing parts of our body are only designed to keep us alive for a certain period of time.

If there were a few simple tricks to make a cheap car last longer, the designers would have built them in. They do not actually design a car to fail. Rather, they put in the bare minimum resources to make it last until the warranty period is over, or to whatever life span the market strategists come up with. Likewise with the human body, there are no simple tricks to make it last longer (other than avoiding the self destructive things we do). A longer lasting body would require one of a fundamentally different design, where more energy is expended right from the beginning on longevity and where parts and systems are built differently. Among mammals, we are already at the extreme end of lifespan. So a system to extend our life will need to take care of just about everything - which is where modern medicine is heading. To extend life, we need more and more fundamental medical interventions as we get older, to take care of every possible part as it starts to fail, like trying to keep a 30 year old hyundai on the road with 300,000km already on the clock.
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aquascoot
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #1 - Aug 31st, 2025 at 7:26pm
 
Interesting.

2 things I'm pretty sure both elephants and killer whales keep females around past their menopause.
I think the old barren females take on the task of teaching hunting to the grandkids.

Secondly, you are correct that modern medicine is spending the majority of its resources (energy) keeping the old cars from going to the wreckers.
It may be the resource allocation is unsustainable.

The cost of medical care for the elderly is soon to outstrip the cost of social security for the elderly.

Evolution probably requires the elderly to do the Inuit act of walking off into the snow.

Voluntary assisted dying is probably going to boom . It certainly is in Canada. As the elderly continue to see a decline in societies ability to care for them, this option will be ramped up .
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freediver
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #2 - Aug 31st, 2025 at 8:05pm
 
Quote:
The cost of medical care for the elderly is soon to outstrip the cost of social security for the elderly.


It's not really the cost. That is what we are willing to spend. Often on ourselves. It reflects the available funds.
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Bobby.
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #3 - Aug 31st, 2025 at 10:06pm
 

Every day over the age of 50 when you wake up is a good day.

100 years ago many people didn't reach the age of 50.
Even a simple infection could kill you -
but now we have anti-biotics.
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2025 at 11:31pm
 

During intermittent fasting and an unprocessed food diet [sans meat]....
and the body begins to operate in Autophagy mode.

Autophagy mode = the body [itself] is able to remove [destroy] damaged cells



----- >

Metabolic Autophagy
Interview Preview With Siim Land

02 min   [no detail.....just 'a taster']
https://old.bitchute.com/video/YlFZf2mZQQg/


Quote:

Natural health expert and Mercola.com founder Dr. Joseph Mercola interviews Siim Land, a sociocultural anthropologist, entrepreneur and high-performance coach, is also the author of an excellent book, "Metabolic Autophagy:
Practice Intermittent Fasting and Resistance Training to Build Muscle and Promote Longevity (Metabolic Autophagy Diet Book)."




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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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freediver
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #5 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 7:04am
 
Your body is constantly replacing damaged cells Yadda. I think the entire stomach lining gets replaced every few days.
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Yadda
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #6 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 9:59am
 
Quote:

Your body is constantly replacing damaged cells.




Well, if you are confident of that......then we need do nothing more, that 'follow the crowd'.

And [in our diet and our eating] we can do exactly what the majority of humanity does.

And then, we cannot be surprised, that we will [likely] suffer the same illnesses, which the majority of humanity always suffers from.


KJV
"Enter ye in at the strait gate:
for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many there be which go in thereat:"




Or we can choose,         .....to be an outlier.


During periods of sub-par health [i.e. illness], periodic fasting or simply 'intermittent fasting' is able to 'supercharge' our own body's immune system.

Fasting, will also enhance our own body's ability to expel 'normal' metabolic toxins which we have accumulated, and which our body, has been 'carrying'.


I have heard of fasting referred to as.....'God's operating table.'


outlier = = a person or thing away or detached from the main body or system.

metabolism = = the chemical processes that occur within a living organism to maintain life.




This woman, Mindy, explores why you may want to stimulate Autophagy, and how to do so.

----- >

New Research On Autophagy And Your Immune System


14 min
Nov 17, 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R80Sji7RGxU





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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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aquascoot
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #7 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 10:15am
 
It was always the theory yadda , that fasting would force the body to consume unhealthy cells .
And it is undeniable that cancer cells have a much higher metabolic rate and would be more likely to perish if blood sugar dropped for a period of time.

Add in that the Japanese and Tibetans live the longest UNLESS they move to the west and get on the processed carb diet, in which case their longevity drops.


One can't escape the fact sperm counts have halved worldwide in 20 years , so there is some environmental toxin causing this.

Is it

Plastics?
Herbicides?
Trans fats?
Sugar?
Obesity?
Higher cortisol  due to more complex stress?

Very difficult to tease this all out.

The epidemic of young women with breadt cancer and surging bowel cancer rates are probably interconnected.

Whim Hoff and the proponents of cold plunge and saunas think severe hot and cold cause cancer cell stress and death.
Studies from Scandinavia support this. But again it's very hard to tease it all out
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freediver
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 10:27am
 
The reason our nuts are on the outside is that they need to be at a lower temperature. Sitting down is not good for them, especially wearing clothes and with a gut hanging over the top of them. Or with a laptop on your lap.

Not that low sperm count is a bad thing, given that we put so much effort into avoiding pregnancy. All it takes is one healthy swimmer.
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aquascoot
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #9 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 1:10pm
 
Exercise is possibly the answer



the Rochester Young Men’s Study (2009–2010), conducted in Rochester, New York. The study involved 189 healthy men aged 18–22 and was led by Audrey Gaskins from Harvard School of Public Health .

Key findings include:

After adjusting for various factors, men in the highest quartile of activity (≥15 hours/week of moderate-to-vigorous exercise) had a 73% higher sperm concentration than those in the lowest quartile (<5 hours/week) .

The study also found that men who watched over 20 hours of TV per week had a significantly lower sperm concentration (44% lower) compared to those who watched very little .


Study: Physical activity and television watching in relation to semen quality in young men (Rochester Young Men’s Study, 2009–2010).

Population: 189 healthy U.S. men, aged 18–22.

Finding: Men exercising ≥15 h/week of moderate–vigorous activity had 73% higher sperm concentration than those exercising <5 h/week. TV time, conversely, had an inverse effect.



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Bobby.
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #10 - Sep 1st, 2025 at 4:11pm
 

Aqua,
Quote:
One can't escape the fact sperm counts have halved worldwide in 20 years



Who cares?

We have 8 billion people in the world now - far too many.
The environment is being wrecked by over population.
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #11 - Sep 4th, 2025 at 7:24am
 
The other problem is the rapidly shrinking Y chromosome.

Why is it shrinking?

What will be the result?
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freediver
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #12 - Sep 4th, 2025 at 8:21am
 
That started happening when humans first moved into the far north of europe and asia.
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Sir Eoin O Fada
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Re: the problem of aging
Reply #13 - Sep 24th, 2025 at 7:54pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 1st, 2025 at 10:27am:
The reason our nuts are on the outside is that they need to be at a lower temperature. Sitting down is not good for them, especially wearing clothes and with a gut hanging over the top of them. Or with a laptop on your lap.

Not that low sperm count is a bad thing, given that we put so much effort into avoiding pregnancy. All it takes is one healthy swimmer.

Wear the kilt and ‘’Where ere ye be let yer balls hang free’’.
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