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Australia's first treaty with first nations (Read 2343 times)
ProudKangaroo
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #30 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:14pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 11:14am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:08pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:04pm:
My god you idiots are ridiculous.

This is brilliant. An actual working measure to closing the gap.


And that's the problem.

Why the Gap Never Closes


How would you close the gap then?

Please Explain.
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freediver
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #31 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:57pm
 
Closing the gap is essentially a communist idea - equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. But it is far easier to measure outcome than opportunity, which is why so many have latched on to it. And of course the industry of parasites have latched onto it because it means more free rides.

Closing the gap is dead simple to achieve. The easiest way to close the gap is for the government to take everyone's food away, so we all starve equally. But of course, then everyone would realise that closing the gap was the wrong goal to begin with.

Somehow, combining communism with racism magically erases all the problems of both communism and racism in the eyes of its promoters. Yet if you pay attention, it is easy to see that the entrenched problems with aborigines are attributable to the continued combination of communism and racism in government policy. This can be most clearly seen in remote aboriginal communities, where everyone is on welfare, no-one is expected to do any work, and there is no work available anyway. But because of racist attitudes there is no expectation that the situation be resolved, other than by giving them even more money and telling them how much we respect them, while they live in squalor, drink themselves to death, beat their wives and rape their children. Oh, but we can ban alcohol. We would not tolerate abolition among white people, who can handle their alcohol, but it is OK for aborigines, because alcohol is destroying their communities (not communism or racism). So we have bandaids on top of bandaids on top of bandaids, with an ever growing bureaucracy of parasites to manage the bandaids and declare how wonderful they are for finally dreaming up a "working solution" to the problem. All to avoid having to treat aborigines as equals.
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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:08pm by freediver »  

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Frank
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #32 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:04pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:14pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 11:14am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:08pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:04pm:
My god you idiots are ridiculous.

This is brilliant. An actual working measure to closing the gap.


And that's the problem.

Why the Gap Never Closes


How would you close the gap then?

Please Explain.


If you had read beyond the headline you would have a clue.
I even highlighted the kicker - yet you pretend to have missed it. Ridiculous.

In any case, there is no magic formula just for Aborigines or blacks or lumpen whites. 
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #33 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:10pm
 
Please...

Stop hiding behind lazy, emotive labels to disguise the fact that you've got nothing of substance to offer.

Racism is about discrimination or prejudice based on race. Closing the gap is about eliminating existing racial inequities. It's not about treating anyone worse because of their identity, it's about recognising historical and ongoing disadvantage and correcting it. That's the very opposite of racism.

Communism refers to a political and economic system involving the abolition of private property and common ownership of resources. Closing the gap doesn't abolish property, collectivise anything, or dismantle capitalism. It's simply targeted public policy in health, housing, education, and employment, the bread and butter of every government, no matter what ideology they fly under.

What really unsettles people like you is the prospect of a level playing field. If the gap is closed, you'd actually have to compete on merit instead of coasting through a life of privilege, never having had to develop any. The thought of that frightens you.

And let's not forget, you can't call it communism while you're also frothing at the mouth about land going back to traditional owners. Those are mutually exclusive ideas.
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #34 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:11pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:04pm:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:14pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 11:14am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:08pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:04pm:
My god you idiots are ridiculous.

This is brilliant. An actual working measure to closing the gap.


And that's the problem.

Why the Gap Never Closes


How would you close the gap then?

Please Explain.


If you had read beyond the headline you would have a clue.
I even highlighted the kicker - yet you pretend to have missed it. Ridiculous.

In any case, there is no magic formula just for Aborigines or blacks or lumpen whites. 


Oh, so you don't like me holding up a mirror to your behaviour?

Please Explain.
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aquascoot
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #35 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:17pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:14pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 11:14am:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:08pm:
mothra wrote on Aug 22nd, 2025 at 4:04pm:
My god you idiots are ridiculous.

This is brilliant. An actual working measure to closing the gap.


And that's the problem.

Why the Gap Never Closes


How would you close the gap then?

Please Explain.



I think if everyone in Australia just posted Twilight zone over and over again, the gap could be closed
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aquascoot
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #36 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:20pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 12:57pm:
Closing the gap is essentially a communist idea - equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity. But it is far easier to measure outcome than opportunity, which is why so many have latched on to it. And of course the industry of parasites have latched onto it because it means more free rides.

Closing the gap is dead simple to achieve. The easiest way to close the gap is for the government to take everyone's food away, so we all starve equally. But of course, then everyone would realise that closing the gap was the wrong goal to begin with.

Somehow, combining communism with racism magically erases all the problems of both communism and racism in the eyes of its promoters. Yet if you pay attention, it is easy to see that the entrenched problems with aborigines are attributable to the continued combination of communism and racism in government policy. This can be most clearly seen in remote aboriginal communities, where everyone is on welfare, no-one is expected to do any work, and there is no work available anyway. But because of racist attitudes there is no expectation that the situation be resolved, other than by giving them even more money and telling them how much we respect them, while they live in squalor, drink themselves to death, beat their wives and rape their children. Oh, but we can ban alcohol. We would not tolerate abolition among white people, who can handle their alcohol, but it is OK for aborigines, because alcohol is destroying their communities (not communism or racism). So we have bandaids on top of bandaids on top of bandaids, with an ever growing bureaucracy of parasites to manage the bandaids and declare how wonderful they are for finally dreaming up a "working solution" to the problem. All to avoid having to treat aborigines as equals.




Hard to argue with any of that
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Frank
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #37 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:42pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:10pm:
Please...

Stop hiding behind lazy, emotive labels to disguise the fact that you've got nothing of substance to offer.

Racism is about discrimination or prejudice based on race. Closing the gap is about eliminating existing racial inequities. It's not about treating anyone worse because of their identity, it's about recognising historical and ongoing disadvantage and correcting it. That's the very opposite of racism.

Communism refers to a political and economic system involving the abolition of private property and common ownership of resources. Closing the gap doesn't abolish property, collectivise anything, or dismantle capitalism. It's simply targeted public policy in health, housing, education, and employment, the bread and butter of every government, no matter what ideology they fly under.

What really unsettles people like you is the prospect of a level playing field. If the gap is closed, you'd actually have to compete on merit instead of coasting through a life of privilege, never having had to develop any. The thought of that frightens you.

And let's not forget, you can't call it communism while you're also frothing at the mouth about land going back to traditional owners. Those are mutually exclusive ideas.

Nonsense.

The greatest 'disadvantage', squalor, neglect, criminality and abuse occurs where everyone is an Aborygine:in the remotest Aborigyne 'communities' where there is NO community, no cohesion, no solidarity, no direction, self-respect. Aborignes suffer at the hands of other Aborigynes, not at the hands of whites. Aborigyne parents neglect and abuse Aborigyne children. School attendance is abysmal, school completion even worse.



You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Or to cite the horticultural variation, You can lead a whore to culture but you can't make her think.

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freediver
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #38 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:45pm
 
Quote:
Racism is about discrimination or prejudice based on race.


Exactly. That's why we have lower standards and expectations for aborigines. Why we let them get away with things that we would not permit from any other group in our society. It's why they are treated differently before the law.

Quote:
What really unsettles people like you is the prospect of a level playing field.


How is treating people differently before the law, based on their race, a level playing field?

Quote:
Communism refers to a political and economic system involving the abolition of private property and common ownership of resources.


There are plenty of cases where that is exactly how aborigines are treated. They are given property (eg Uluru, Mt Warning etc), but they only have collective ownership of it. They are not allowed to have individual ownership of it. So an entire communist economy is built around the ownership, with exactly the consequences you would expect from communism.
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ProudKangaroo
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #39 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 3:19pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:45pm:
Quote:
Racism is about discrimination or prejudice based on race.


Exactly. That's why we have lower standards and expectations for aborigines. Why we let them get away with things that we would not permit from any other group in our society. It's why they are treated differently before the law.

Quote:
What really unsettles people like you is the prospect of a level playing field.


How is treating people differently before the law, based on their race, a level playing field?

Quote:
Communism refers to a political and economic system involving the abolition of private property and common ownership of resources.


There are plenty of cases where that is exactly how aborigines are treated. They are given property (eg Uluru, Mt Warning etc), but they only have collective ownership of it. They are not allowed to have individual ownership of it. So an entire communist economy is built around the ownership, with exactly the consequences you would expect from communism.


Communism is state ownership, full stop.

How are you struggling with such a basic definition?

What's really going on here is your fear of a world where our Indigenous brothers and sisters stand as equals.

You're free to object to traditional owners having a say over land or wielding real authority, but there are two things you should keep in mind.

First, it isn't communism. Don't cheapen the word by misusing it.

Second, you're sliding down a very ugly slope. The way you're carrying on, it starts with quibbling about co-management of country and ends with you fantasising about locking First Nations people in hermetically sealed compounds, selling tickets to the wealthy to go on safari hunts, branding the whole grotesque enterprise "Absoic Park" or some other dystopian joke.
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« Last Edit: Aug 25th, 2025 at 3:24pm by ProudKangaroo »  
 
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aquascoot
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #40 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 3:41pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 1:45pm:
Quote:
Racism is about discrimination or prejudice based on race.


Exactly. That's why we have lower standards and expectations for aborigines. Why we let them get away with things that we would not permit from any other group in our society. It's why they are treated differently before the law.

Quote:
What really unsettles people like you is the prospect of a level playing field.


How is treating people differently before the law, based on their race, a level playing field?

Quote:
Communism refers to a political and economic system involving the abolition of private property and common ownership of resources.


There are plenty of cases where that is exactly how aborigines are treated. They are given property (eg Uluru, Mt Warning etc), but they only have collective ownership of it. They are not allowed to have individual ownership of it. So an entire communist economy is built around the ownership, with exactly the consequences you would expect from communism.




Hard to argue with any of that
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Frank
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #41 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 4:19pm
 
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 3:19pm:
Communism is state ownership, full stop.

How are you struggling with such a basic definition?


It is an idiotic misunderstanding by you, perhaps that's why.

It is common ownership in a COLLECTIVE, a commune. Like a kibbutz.  Wink

State ownership is not communism.




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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #42 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 4:21pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 4:19pm:
ProudKangaroo wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 3:19pm:
Communism is state ownership, full stop.

How are you struggling with such a basic definition?


It is an idiotic misunderstanding by you, perhaps that's why.

It is common ownership in a COLLECTIVE, a commune. Like a kibbutz.  Wink

State ownership is not communism.


No, its socialism.  Ownership of the means of production held in common equates to basic socialism.  If you knew anything about political theory, you'd know that, Soren.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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freediver
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #43 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 4:35pm
 
The consequences are the same Brian, whatever label you put on it.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Australia's first treaty with first nations
Reply #44 - Aug 25th, 2025 at 5:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 25th, 2025 at 4:35pm:
The consequences are the same Brian, whatever label you put on it.


Australia hosted a conference of all the Socialist states around the world back in the early 1970s.  We were accorded the honour as the second most Socialist nation in the world.  Since then we have gone downhill with major privatisation efforts.  Australians tend to think that effort has gone too far.  We are paying proportionately more in fees for services as a consequence.  We are making oligarchs richer at our expense.  Gough would never allow that in his Term as Prime Minister.  Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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It seems that I have upset a Moderator and are forbidden from using posting to the general forum now. So much for Freedom of Speech. Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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